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- - Jeez Louise (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=197429)

Well then let me apologize in advance for contributing to additional clutter. Can you (anyone) point me to the Clarkmeister Theorem post? I have heard about it but haven't been able to locate it. Would appreciate being able to see for myself what is mentioned so often. Cheers!

Clarkmeister Theorem: If the forth flush card hits on the river and you are heads-up and first to act, bet out no matter what you have.

When you are out of position and headsup and the 4th card of a flush suit comes on the river, bet into your opponent no matter what you have.

I've learned much more by responding to posts than by posting my own hands. In fact, that is why I respond to posts most of the time.

I learned nothing from this response though.

To follow up to this. Last night I spent about 2 hours doing nothing but responding to Small Stakes posts and I was astounded at how many threads had like 0-2 posts and less than 25 views.

I responded to posts as far back as 3 pages behind, and some of those were only inactive for 3-4 hours! There were some very good discussions and threads that got buried simply because the forum gets littered with new hands so dang fast.

By the time I was done responding, the first thread I had responded to was already at the bottom of page 2! It's obvious from the views that people aren't even bothering to go that far back to read, which is a shame. These are poker hands, the discussion doesn't become invalid or "old" after a few years, let alone a few hours.

So, really, I encourage everyone here to try reading a full 3 pages back. Every thread. Respond to as many as you have questions on. Give advice. When you are done with that, and it took me well over 2 hours, then go back and post follow-ups in those threads you responded in if there are comments or questions to your posts. And *then*, post a hand or two if you still have a burning question. But many of you will learn far more from giving shitty advice to someone else and getting called on it, than you will from selectively posting hands that you know you played "sort of bad", but not "terrible".

Anyways, if everyone did this, I think they would not only learn better, it would make the forum a more condusive learning environment with less clutter. Worry more about how you can learn from what's already out there and how you can contribute to other people's threads rather than the "please everyone help me on *my* hand" concept. It's a give and take, and the more you give, the more you get out of it. If all you try and do is take, you are just cheating yourself and clutting the forum to boot.

No problemo. You were far from the only one I saw, unfortunately, you were just the most prolific at the time. Nothing personal.

Sorry to be pedantic about this, but I'm trying to understand. So far in my limited experience A and K of the flush suit are sticking around to the river no matter what waiting for the 4th of the flush. Assuming I have none of that flush or something low and folding to a raise - the number of times I take this down makes the bet into my opponent worthwhile?

in my very limited experience, the following parlay makes this bet cool.

1) if we have a flush but it's not too high, this may be a value bet.
2) we usually don't get raised unless they have at least the Q.
3) if we don't have a flush, we could get a better (but non flush) hand to fold.

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to be pedantic about this, but I'm trying to understand. So far in my limited experience A and K of the flush suit are sticking around to the river no matter what waiting for the 4th of the flush. Assuming I have none of that flush or something low and folding to a raise - the number of times I take this down makes the bet into my opponent worthwhile?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of those things that makes me wish I was better at poker so I could think of them. (Thanks Clarkmeister.)

The essense is that almost all opponents will fold at least as often as 1 in however big the pot is (no matter how big it is). Also, assuming you have it, most opponents will call this bet more often than they will bet themselves. (e.g. Anyone with a baby flush will call, but the same person will probably not bet. The same applies to worse hands.) So whether you have it or not, betting is better than checking.

[ QUOTE ]
3) if we don't have a flush, we could get a better (but non flush) hand to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could also get a better, small flush hand, to fold. Bonus points when they fold it face up and tell you, nice catch!!!

b