Re: First post - Don\'t go easy on me
 

I see that leading into the preflop raiser is definitely not good. However if he was on my right instead would it be correct to lead out?

Incidentally, UTG had KK and MP2 had QQ.

Re: First post - Don\'t go easy on me
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying that a C/R is horrible if pfr bets and all call back to you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually misread the action and assumed UTG raised the flop, not MP2.

I'm still not convinced about C/R vs C/C'ing and closing the action if all call to me. It's almost like the argument for raising here is for value, but the value is speculative; there *is* no straight to speak of and there just aren't enough other ways for your hand to win...

Re: First post - Don\'t go easy on me
 

Yes it is bad. With just 2 callers you need to check/call.

If the action were: Hero checks, PFR bets, 7 people call. Now a check/raise makes more sense. That doesn't mean that you should do it though. If the villian is aggressive, I will still check/call and go for a check/raise on 4th if I make my straight. If I don't fear a 3-bet from the PFR, then I will check/raise for value.

With just 2 callers in the middle, you get:

8(.315) - 2 = +.52 SB when you check/raise and everyone one calls.

4(.315) - 1 = +.26 SB when you check/call and everyone else calls.

So you get .26 SB (.13 BB more, as we already figured out in a previous post) when you check/raise and everything works out. But every thing will not always work out. And, sometimes a check/raise can kill your implied odds if you hit the straight on a later street.

A check/raise is only viable iff (if and only if):

1) Your implied odds don't go down. That is, by check/raising the flop for value you will still be able to check/raise the turn for value. This usually isn't the case as you should bet out if you hit the straight on 4th after you check/raise the flop. Going for back-to-back check/raises is usually a losing strategy.

2) No one will fold to the check/raise and possible 3-bet.

Brad

Re: First post - Don\'t go easy on me
 

OK, cool [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] Thanks for the back and forth -- a very good discussion and I learned a lot.