Re: Weird science...
 

then it seems you were playing it based on the hope that he would price you in on the turn. I guess what I'm saying is that you either make a play for it on the flop, or hope he prices you in on the turn. If the turn bricks and he bets anything, you no longer have much FE and don't really have much but probably 9 or 12 outs...if that, it might be 7 outs.

Re: Weird science...
 

Fnurt,

The decision on what to do on the turn when you miss is so tough, and can be avoided. If you hit, you may not get paid off. If you miss, a fold is probably correct to an all-in, but I'm not sure about it. Either way, you WILL have more FE on the flop because you can expect your opponent to bet into you almost all the time on the turn, which means better odds to call. This logic that you can wait for more FE is incorrect. It would maybe hold some merit if you were first to act, but because you don't have position, expect a bet into you on the turn and therefore less FE.

-Jason

Re: Weird science...
 

Very good points. Thanks for the comments all.

Re: Weird science...
 

Isn't it possible he called preflop with 77,44,TT and hit his set? Now he puts out a 1/3 pot bet as he wants to build the pot. He may not want to check raise fearing overcards would check and get a free card. When he is raised he re-raises hoping his opponent will re-raise all-in getting all the money in.

Same logic on the turn, puts in a small bet, building the pot, hoping for a reraise, but not enough to provoke a fold.

The river is a test to see if the 3 to a flush helped his opponent. The reraise back says it did and he bails.

Is this unreasonable or poor play? Personally, I don't like to slowplay to allow a possible flush draw to hit, but there are a lot of people that would want to milk as many chips as possible.

Bob

P.S. I don't understand the advice to get all-in on a draw. I don't think this player folds to a reraise all-in on the flop, I think that's what he wanted. So, I am going all-in on a draw with no folding equity? I don't think so.

Re: Weird science...
 

So... what do you do? Call then fold on the turn?

Re: Weird science...
 

[ QUOTE ]
So... what do you do? Call then fold on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was primarily trying to divine some reason for his opponent's play since everyone seemed to think he played badly no matter what he might have had.

However, if I was in fnurt's position, having no read on this player I believe I would have called his bet on the flop and seen what the turn brought. I don't have that much invested in this hand. I'm certainly willing to let it go if I don't hit the flush and he prices me out on the turn.

Not that I necessarily find fault with Fnurt's play here. He may very well have had a read on this player that he was taking a stab at the pot and tried to raise him out. But when he is reraised he should be willing to shutdown. I don't even know if the almost 5:1 he is getting on the flop re-raise is even enough to call there. He is certainly behind and he only has 9/8 outs if he is up against a set, which is certainly a distinct possibility, and as you point out there is a definite possibility his opponent pushes on the turn (or worse he hits his A or Q and is still up against a set or worst the board pairs).

Still I doubt I end up needing to make that decision as I don't raise on this flop unless I have a very good reason to think it will provoke a fold.

Bob