Re: 20-40 at the TAJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
re: hand. I wait for the turn to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is always an option, but 3-way Id rather not F around with a vulnerable hand, especially after there is already a nice pot out there (5BB). I just play it straight forward and get paid off.

Re: 20-40 at the TAJ
 

DV,

I've folded here before, but calling should definitely be the default play.

I think this was a great bet by your opponent if he knew you wouldn't raise without a Q.

-Michael

Re: 20-40 at the TAJ
 

Yeah, but you don't change the vulnerability of your hand at all by raising on the flop. These other two are almost certain to call your flop raise having already paid one bet, so you do make more if you wait for the turn to raise.

-Michael

Re: 20-40 at the TAJ
 

Easy call with that much in the pot.

Jeff

Re: 20-40 at the TAJ
 

ok here is a bit easier way to play that hand or maybe not but i'd play it my way anyway...call the flop bet ...raise the turn no mater what (well ace may be an exception but...) and at will bet or check down the river...I do not think that anybody would put a play on you if you raise the turn...As far as paying on off on the river with your hand you just have to no question about it .

Re: 20-40 at the TAJ
 

You can't fold here because a fold would get a lot of attention. You were the aggressor preflop and on each subsequent round PLUS you are last to act. It's your job to call this one down. If you folded here, I would be sure to take shots at you later on. In future hands, I'd be more inclined to call you with thin draws with the intention of betting out on the river if I miss.

There is also a small chance that he is making a play with ace-high or a pocket pair. Either way, it is a good bet on his part.

Re: 20-40 at the TAJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it is fairly likely that caller is playing mid pp here given the betting patterns. Any q would have brought a raise by the turn for sure...a 5 would also be raised by the turn. Therefore, given this info pp or AK are the only likely hands..rasieing this hand on the river will pay you off in both instances.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, you should re-examine your aggressive tendencies.

If the player is an average player, I highly suspect this guy to have a queen. Given that he did not 3-bet preflop, I'd guess that it was a weak queen. Most people do not automatically check-raise turns with top pair weak kicker. It's usually a better play to check and call. Against all but the most predictable calling stations, this limits your losses when you are beat and maximizes your win when you are good. Think about the possible hands and the likely action and you'll see what I mean.

If the player is a tough player, I'd be less likely to think he had a queen because I'd expect a check-raise or 3-bet from him on the flop. This is the standard response to a late position preflop aggressor when you flop top pair and there is a third person in the hand.

Raising on the river here is a rookie mistake unless you have a great tell on him.

Re: 20-40 at the TAJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm responding to back up nopepper. if you had raised, i'm sure this guy would have called, and it would have been the correct play based on what he held but whether or not it's correct in general depends on how often he'd play a hand other than a queen like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

More likely, the original bettor folds or he re-raises. The ONLY way I can see that a raise would result in a desireable call is if the HERO had a maniac table image.

There is one more possibility for a call given this board. The SB has a hand like A5 or 45s. This would explain why he bet out the flop instead of check-raising. Given that no flush is possible by the turn, some people may be tempted to slowplay with trip 5s or a full-house one more round to get a call from the Big Blind. That's because a check-raise from the SB is going to scream trip 5s and it's highly likely that the BB and the Hero will fold. He doesn't worry too much about giving free cards because his opponents are most likely drawing to 2 outs. (with the exception of 67 which would give someone an open-ended draw).

Re: 20-40 at the TAJ
 

Ok a number of people have suggested smooth call on the flop, and pop the turn. It is of course a viable option and I can say this. Heads up that would be my default play 80% of the time, 3 ways or more I will raise the flop 80% of the time. I do not know if one is right or wrong, but I suppose there is not a big difference either way. If there was a big draw out there I might wait for the turn to charge twice as much (unless its someone Ive seen 3 bet their draws on the flop).

As for the river I am surprised there are people that think a raise is right. It seems so wrong. Id love to make a poll but the site isnt giving me the option

Re: 20-40 at the TAJ
 

More likely, the original bettor folds or he re-raises

in general, that is wrong in today's games. in this particular example, it is especially wrong - just look at how he played the hand. he would have called.

again, i'm only saying that raising is correct according to FTOP on this particular hand. whether or not it's correct in general against him based on how he played the hand "depends".