Re: The Ultimate Question
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So only that combination turns into "you". Might some other combination turn into the same "you" except with freckles (or a different sex organ)? [/ QUOTE ] I don't think so. If "I" had a slightly different genes, that would almost certainly have resulted in my being raised differently by my parents (especially in the case of being the other sex). I think Cyrus' response is outstanding, and have nothing more to add to it. |
Re: The Ultimate Question
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And if I grant you that, what makes you so sure that this soul is infused at the momnent of conception? [/ QUOTE ] Obviously because the Catholic Church teaches so for one thing. But also because an immortal soul is not something that Christians believe non-humans to possess, and thus biological generation would not be the cause. And as far as conception versus another point after the first cell has split a few times, then there is simply no reason for another point since a fetus is fetus is a fetus regardless of what stage of development it is at. |
Re: The Ultimate Question
"And as far as conception versus another point after the first cell has split a few times, then there is simply no reason for another point since a fetus is fetus is a fetus regardless of what stage of development it is at"
One reason would be to make sure there isn't a miscarriage. Don't Jews believe the infusion happens after forty days? |
Re: The Ultimate Question
That seems to just be for psychological reasons to make the parents not feel as bad. And if I remember correctly, the Japanese traditionally did not name a child until 30 days after it's birth for similar reasons.
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Re: The Ultimate Question
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So only that combination turns into "you". Might some other combination turn into the same "you" except with freckles (or a different sex organ)? [/ QUOTE ] We can go further -- given one egg and one sperm, there is more than one possible you. This is, in fact, provable -- Identical Twins. Same egg, same sperm, but you can have very different people. Similarly, unless we care to argue that the twins have the same soul, or share a soul or something like that, it seems that any infusion of a soul into a human must take place sometime after conception (at least one of the twins received a soul at or after the fertilized egg splits). A more interesting though unanswerable question is whether any soul is tied to the biology at all, or does the essence of what makes you, you come from somewhere else altogether. |
Re: The Ultimate Question
But the "moment of conception" can't be right, even if the God infusion theory is right. Because of twinning.
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Re: The Ultimate Question
It's not the same "you" if it has different DNA, or different freckles, or a different sex organ, or whatever.
It's something different. (Note: this assumes the philosophy that "I" am not the same person "I" was two years ago) |
Re: The Ultimate Question
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But the "moment of conception" can't be right, even if the God infusion theory is right. Because of twinning. [/ QUOTE ] David-fantastic observation. I'll consult for the official Catholic answer, but I speculate that if God knows that there will be twins, the soul infusion process would not be complete until the twinning process is finished. |
Re: The Ultimate Question
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...the soul infusion process... [/ QUOTE ] Is that a John Coltrane album?? |
Re: The Ultimate Question
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[ QUOTE ] But the "moment of conception" can't be right, even if the God infusion theory is right. Because of twinning. [/ QUOTE ] David-fantastic observation. I'll consult for the official Catholic answer, but I speculate that if God knows that there will be twins, the soul infusion process would not be complete until the twinning process is finished. [/ QUOTE ] Saved you some time bigdaddy: “Even within Roman Catholic teaching, the Vatican has not reached a conclusion about when a fetus becomes a person, and theologians take varied positions: ‘This declaration expressly leaves aside the question of the moment when the spiritual soul is infused. There is not a unanimous tradition on this point and authors are as yet in disagreement.’ Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (Vatican), Declaration on Procured Abortion, 1974 Source: Thomas A. Shannon and Allan B. Wolter, O.F.M., "Reflections on the Moral Status of the Pre-Embryo," Theological Studies, 51:4 (1990), p. 619. RJT |
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