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-   -   Do you push this flop? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=309507)

08-09-2005 02:57 AM

Re: Do you push this flop?
 
I still don't reraise him for any metagame considerations with any hand weaker then kk. If I don't beat him on the flop I fold the man has a 5% fpr If I could sit at my computer and have people play back at me I'll be a happy man.

luckOverSkill 08-09-2005 10:49 AM

Re: Do you push this flop?
 
This is easy. Reraise on the flop. I would never
call here. Especially since you describe villain as
being really tight.

He may have a set or an overpair (wouldn't shock me if
he had QQ or JJ given his fold on the turn). You figure
you're ahead, so go ahead and put your money in. There's
a good chance he'll call especially since he made that
big raise to your initial flop bet. Reraise the
flop!!!

08-09-2005 11:28 AM

Re: Do you push this flop?
 
The only hands that make sense here for the player you described are QQ and JJ. Unless he chose this hand to play out of character, what other hands would he raise with preflop, call a re-raise preflop, then check-raise on a ten high flop and fold to a king on the turn? NONE.

That is why I think the call on the flop rather than the re-raise is correct, and why you got the most money you were going to get from him, period, short of severely underbetting the turn and / or river.

Look at it from the tight players perspective. "I've got QQ (or JJ), but this guy re-raised pre-flop so I'm afraid of KK and AA (and AK). Ok, great. A ten-high flop. Now I'll check-raise this guy... Uh oh... he called, my QQ must not be any good. A king?! That's horrible, now even if he had the AK my queens are no good. That's probably what he had and I got sucked out on again. Oh well, no way my hand is good."

If you re-raise the flop (even the min) he puts you on KK or AA (outside chance of TT) and folds. If he has KK or AA and you re-raise the flop, he probably calls or goes all in, but in that case your action is less likely to get killed on the turn anyway. Your best hope was calling and hoping that another low card hits, in which case he may or may not bet out or check call with QQ or JJ. You got unlucky and the king killed any possibility for more action.

I summary, I think that a call on the flop wins more against QQ or JJ (and maybe KK) than a re-raise, and doesn't matter much either way against KK or AA.

Leptyne 08-09-2005 01:12 PM

Re: Do you push this flop?
 
I'm not a big fan of the PFR with TT when you know you are up against a bigger pair. I like it even less when you're up against a short stack. However, now that you're at the flop stage I like coming over the top with a min-raise. If I've counted correctly this will leave him with $285 which he may just push if he calls. No matter what over-pair he has he may figure he's ahead plus he has two cards left to improve.


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