Re: Ugly JJ line
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise flop, fold to a reraise or a bet on the turn.

if no bet on turn check behind, then check fold river unless you hit you straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, just fold flop, no reason to fight over this pot at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not so sure about this. There are several cards that could fall on the turn that help you, say the Ks for example. A flop raise could give you the chance to check behind on a helpful turn and get a free draw for your straight/ flush on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are we raising because we have backdoor redraws? That is just silly. The point is this is a marginal holding and we have been shown aggression, just drop it, you can find plenty of better spots. I play with you alot and I think contesting pots like this is a major leak of yours.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

[ QUOTE ]

Dont u think min raise have better chance of achieving this goal than calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly. Villain will definitely call the raise, but what if he bets out the turn for a reasonable amount? I just hate to bloat the pot and make his turn bet $2-3 more.

edit - this post has elicited some excellent thoughts on pot control vs aggression. What should hero's line be in this situation? We all agree there is a time and place for both. Is this the time and place for aggression or pot control?

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Dont u think min raise have better chance of achieving this goal than calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly. Villain will definitely call the raise, but what if he bets out the turn for a reasonable amount? I just hate to bloat the pot and make his turn bet $2-3 more.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a fold if he leads the turn after we raise.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Dont u think min raise have better chance of achieving this goal than calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly. Villain will definitely call the raise, but what if he bets out the turn for a reasonable amount? I just hate to bloat the pot and make his turn bet $2-3 more.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a fold if he leads the turn after we raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know why we are raising this flop, whats the point, I can see maybe if villain has a history of donkbetting into us when we PFR, but in a vacuum this is a crystal clear fold.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Dont u think min raise have better chance of achieving this goal than calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly. Villain will definitely call the raise, but what if he bets out the turn for a reasonable amount? I just hate to bloat the pot and make his turn bet $2-3 more.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a fold if he leads the turn after we raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know why we are raising this flop, whats the point, I can see maybe if villain has a history of donkbetting into us when we PFR, but in a vacuum this is a crystal clear fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess it really depends on your image. When I play at this level, I raise PF alot and fire cb like crazy. So my opponent usually want to bet with alot of worse hands than JJ here. AK and 88 are all possible.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

While I agree that villains incredibly weak flop lead looks suspicious, a raise that takes down the pot wins us what, 6xbb a portion of the time and loses us what, 12-14xbb the rest of the time, not to mention the times we check behind turn and a worse hand bluffs us out. I cant see how raising here can be profitable enough. Like I said, if you want to make a point to villain to stop donkbetting into us when we PFR, thats one thing, but in general this is a clear fold. At these stakes villains love to weak lead so we can get stubborn and reraise, dont oblige them.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

based on what do u assume I will lost 16bb here. Do you always raise, bet, bet with mid pair?
$2 max for me.

This is kind of spot different to different people. That's why 6 max is a game of adjustment. If you are tight and villian is tight, fold and move on. I do this when I sense my opponent is taking a stand. It works for me.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

[ QUOTE ]
based on what do u assume I will lost 16bb here. Do you always raise, bet, bet with mid pair?
$2 max for me.

This is kind of spot different to different people. That's why 6 max is a game of adjustment. If you are tight and villian is tight, fold and move on. I do this when I sense my opponent is taking a stand. It works for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

For your first part, there is 6xbb in pot, your raise is there for 2xbb to call+ another 8xbb=16xbb to raise pot. I assume that when you raise pot and are called you lose the hand a vast majority of the time, and when you raise pot and they opponent folds you win the pot a SUPER vast majority of the time.

As for the second part of your post, I have basically said as much in previous posts.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

Looks fine to me.