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-   -   How bad was this laydown? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=313656)

amulet 08-12-2005 04:56 PM

Re: How bad was this laydown?
 
you hit the flop, if your going to call with trash, then you need the guts to follow through if the flop hits you. however, it is difficult vs an all in bet. i think the preflop call is something you need to stop doing. furthermore, bottom 2 is very vulnerable. if he has aj, aa, kk, qq, etc, you can be counterfitted and you lose about 1/4 of the time with 2 cards to come.

steaknshake925 08-12-2005 05:07 PM

Re: How bad was this laydown?
 
without a read i think the fold is fine. just adjust accordingly next time.

however, since you obviously didnt have much of a read on the guy yet, i dont see how you can justify your call preflop.

amulet 08-12-2005 05:11 PM

Re: How bad was this laydown?
 
i have now read all the posts. i want to return to calling with T7. what hands would he most likely raise with. AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AK, AQ. that means there are 30 big pairs, and 32 AK AQ combos. forget you have a T, and forget 99, and AJs. you are 28 to 1 to flop 2 pair or better. in most cases you miss totally. if you hit one of your cards, your still a big dog if he has a pair (almost 50% of the time), or if he has AK or AQ and also hit a card (1/3 of the time). i think your expectation is so negitive that calling unless you know the player is very weak tight is a huge loser. Even vs a weak tight player, i think you need a much better hand. toss T7 and wait for something to play.

Shaun 08-12-2005 05:11 PM

Re: How bad was this laydown?
 
Actually, this laydown is fine. The fact that he is willing to push with AJ here just shows he's easy money when u have the goods.

Shaun 08-12-2005 05:15 PM

Re: How bad was this laydown?
 
Actually I mis-read the original post. I didn't realize all-in guy was opener. Depending on how he plays, I probably have to call. If it was not the opener I fold for sure.

08-12-2005 05:23 PM

Re: How bad was this laydown?
 
I definitely agree he had no business with T7 off preflop. but given the action (namely AJ opened) I'd say T7 is a marginal call on the flop.

BobboFitos 08-12-2005 05:30 PM

Re: How bad was this laydown?
 
if what you say is true, then every "good" player would instantly call.

people say fold not because thye dont like variance, but they rather believe this is a negative EV spot.

I have no opinion of the fold, just your comment re: fold.

captZEEbo1 08-12-2005 07:20 PM

Re: How bad was this laydown?
 
TO THE PEOPLE ADVOCATING A FOLD.....nobody answered my question. What range of hands are you calling here? Are you folding JT? Bottom set? Middle set? Top set?

Let me know. Then explain your reason why you call with the hands you call. The reason you guys are advocating a fold here is because you put him on only like JJJ or 89 for some reason, so if that's the case, you should be folding middle set too. I just can't imagine any of you guys would advocate folding middle set here.

Please also let me know how often you see flopped top set or flopped straight make a 9x pot reraise allin after getting the smallest raise.

The ONLY hand you should be worried about IMO, is JT. ALL other hands that play it like this, I'd be really happy to get allin with. I wouldn't even be surprised to see AK make this play, they probably think they have 10 outs and lots of fold equity.


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