Re: need help playing online poker - i don\' understand why i lose this
 

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straight from Pokertracker

5/10 - 6 max - 236 total hands, -1.12 BB/100hands, 25% VPI
3/6 - 6 max - 5449 total hands, 1.47 BB/100 hands, 30% VPI
3/6 full - 282 total hands, 0.65 BB/100 hands, 35% VPI
2/4 full - 97 total hands, -15.08 BB/100 hands, 20% VPI
1/2 - 6 max - 188 total hands, 19.91 BB/100 hands, 30% VPI
1/2 full - 81 total hands, 1.23 BB/100 hands, 33% VPI


I know i need to play moroe hands, bigger sample size, etc....but this is all i have so far, so I'm throwing it out there so you all know where i'm coming from. Maybe you guys can spot something I can't, I don't know. Are these stats average, or good, or what ?

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We need more than just your VP$IP. The only significant one is your 3/6 game where you have 5k+ hands. And for that game, 30 VPIP is high unless you are an extremely good postflop player with a ton of experience, which I don't think you are. Once again, step down in limits until you're consistently beating the small limits for 10k+ hands at least, with a bb/100 of 2. We've all had to step down at some point, myself included, swallow your pride.

Re: need help playing online poker - i don\' understand why i lose this
 

For the 3/6 give us your PFR, your PFA factor, your WSD%, your W$WSD. Your BB and SB stats.

Re: need help playing online poker - i don\' understand why i lose this
 

thanks for helping me out, heres the PT stats:

3/6 6 max:
total hands: 5509
Players: 5.01
VPI: 29.38
VPI from SB: 41.22
Folded SB to Steal: 78.26
Folded BB to Steal: 57.86
Att to Steal Blinds: 23.77
BB/100 Hands: 1.47
Went to SD%: 33.91
Won $ at SD %: 55.28
PF Raise%: 11.47
Number of Sessions: 117
Avg Pot: 29.38
Hours: 58.27

BB stats for 3/6 6 max:
total hands: 1210
VPI: 24.63
CCPF%: 0.00
Win% in this pos: 29.92
Won$ WSF%: 30.91
BB Won/Hand: (0.11)
Went to SD%: 28.33
Won $ at SD: 53.04
PF Raise% 10.25
Raise First In%: 0.91


SB stats for 3/6 6 max:
total hands: 1145
VPI: 41.22
CCPF%: 0.00
Win% in this pos: 17.38
Won$ WSF%: 37.73
BB Won/Hand: (0.05)
Went to SD%: 32.18
Won $ at SD: 56.83
PF Raise% 17.12
Raise First In%: 11.09

I have varying styles of play that i have been trying out (one includes aggressive preflop play - give action to get action, one is passive - spend less money to see a flop)...the stats above include all of these strategies, so it is a mix

Re: need help playing online poker - i don\' understand why i lose this
 

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thanks for helping me out, heres the PT stats:

3/6 6 max:
total hands: 5509
Players: 5.01
VPI: 29.38
VPI from SB: 41.22
Folded SB to Steal: 78.26
Folded BB to Steal: 57.86
Att to Steal Blinds: 23.77
BB/100 Hands: 1.47
Went to SD%: 33.91
Won $ at SD %: 55.28
PF Raise%: 11.47
Number of Sessions: 117
Avg Pot: 29.38
Hours: 58.27

BB stats for 3/6 6 max:
total hands: 1210
VPI: 24.63
CCPF%: 0.00
Win% in this pos: 29.92
Won$ WSF%: 30.91
BB Won/Hand: (0.11)
Went to SD%: 28.33
Won $ at SD: 53.04
PF Raise% 10.25
Raise First In%: 0.91


SB stats for 3/6 6 max:
total hands: 1145
VPI: 41.22
CCPF%: 0.00
Win% in this pos: 17.38
Won$ WSF%: 37.73
BB Won/Hand: (0.05)
Went to SD%: 32.18
Won $ at SD: 56.83
PF Raise% 17.12
Raise First In%: 11.09

I have varying styles of play that i have been trying out (one includes aggressive preflop play - give action to get action, one is passive - spend less money to see a flop)...the stats above include all of these strategies, so it is a mix

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For starters, you have got to get that VP$IP down, and that PFR up. I recommend using a starting hand chart until you learn the ropes, like the one found here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...mp;sb=5&o=

You are definitely limping way too much. I'm betting your probably also making mistakes like cold calling more than one bet (this is almost never correct). 6 max limit is almost a raise or fold situation preflop. I would also start seriously reading the Heads Up and Short Handed forum, and the archives, to work on your post flop play and how to play specific hands.

Re: need help playing online poker - i don\' understand why i lose this
 

Hi

what would be a good VPI target? What about PF raise? Does VPI include raising preflop, or strictly calling?

That starting hands chart helps, though does it apply differently for a full table vs 5/6 people?

Oh, and by the way thanks for the advice.

Re: need help playing online poker - i don\' understand why i lose this
 

VP includes every time you put money into the pot pre-flop (voluntarily) so it includes both raising and calling.

Note - your numbers may be closer to correct if you have played a lot of 3 or 4 handed on those tables.


I think 23/17 or something like that are reasonable on the 6-max tables in your case. others may disagree.



ummm - yeah, the starting chart is for 6-max games...not for full games.

Re: need help playing online poker - i don\' understand why i lose this
 

Shouted loudly - SAMPLE SIZE!

You cannot possibly get a clue as to how good/bad you are from so few hands. Even at 20,000 hands you are only getting a warmish approximation to the longer run.

Really, at 5k hands you'll have played about 1,200 hands. If you lost/won in big pots on just 10 of those hands against the odds, it'll skew your data horribly.

eg win 8 +20BB pots in the 5000 hands where you were lucky = +160BB or 160BB/5000 = ~3BB/100 whereas if you had lost them, say 8 -6BB pots = ~50BB/5000 or -1BB/100. That's a possible swing of 4BB/100 between lucky/unlucky on just 8 hands in 5000.

Re: need help playing online poker - i don\' understand why i lose this
 

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Shouted loudly - SAMPLE SIZE!

You cannot possibly get a clue as to how good/bad you are from so few hands. Even at 20,000 hands you are only getting a warmish approximation to the longer run.

Really, at 5k hands you'll have played about 1,200 hands. If you lost/won in big pots on just 10 of those hands against the odds, it'll skew your data horribly.

eg win 8 +20BB pots in the 5000 hands where you were lucky = +160BB or 160BB/5000 = ~3BB/100 whereas if you had lost them, say 8 -6BB pots = ~50BB/5000 or -1BB/100. That's a possible swing of 4BB/100 between lucky/unlucky on just 8 hands in 5000.

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Yeah, this is why I'm just really commenting on his VP$IP/ PFR%. I think these are things that you can definitely start to get an idea of after 5k hands.

Re: need help playing online poker - i don\' understand why i lose this
 

So I played a few hundred hands the other day (1/2 4-6 ppl), trying to track my tenedencies, and so I followed the chart for preflop. The table was generally filled with callers. The problem I found was that even if I raise, and with a few callers (say 2), i would miss the flop and not have anything to back it up except for overcard draws, etc. Over time I would be paying a lot to see these flops, and keep missing - and folding if shown aggression. I'm not sure if this was just because it was a small sample size or what, because even when i did hit, it usually didn't occur frequently enough, nor pay enough to cover all the raises preflop.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: need help playing online poker - i don\' understand why i lose this
 

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So I played a few hundred hands the other day (1/2 4-6 ppl), trying to track my tenedencies, and so I followed the chart for preflop. The table was generally filled with callers. The problem I found was that even if I raise, and with a few callers (say 2), i would miss the flop and not have anything to back it up except for overcard draws, etc. Over time I would be paying a lot to see these flops, and keep missing - and folding if shown aggression. I'm not sure if this was just because it was a small sample size or what, because even when i did hit, it usually didn't occur frequently enough, nor pay enough to cover all the raises preflop.

Just my 2 cents.

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Postflop play is more important than preflop play. You need to read those books we told you about. SSHE by Miller, or the Lee Jones book would be a good start.