Re: Ethical thing / best hand not winning at showdown
 

Unless he tables his hand, you shouldn't say anything. If he put his cards faceup on the table and the dealer miscalled his hand, then you should say something.

Since he didn't want the table to see what he was playing by not showing the cards faceup, he forfeited any right to the pot. I would be mad if someone pointed this out to him if he didn't table his hand. I think you did the right thing by not saying anything.

Re: Ethical thing / best hand not winning at showdown
 

This is an obvious one player to a hand thing. If he does not table his hand and mucks he loses. I do not lose sleep over it. One night I was playing and my buddy had A6 and some other guy had A7, the other guy tabled it but the kicker didn't play, my buddy showed the hand to the dealer and mucked. I saw the hand, the dealer saw the hand, but my friend never showed it down and it was not our place to tell him his hand was good.

If you cannot read the board you do not need to get the pot.

I have done it before and I would not want somebody to tell me how stupid I was before I mucked. If I am too dumb to read the cards and I should lose the pot. I have been lucky and misread the board and showed my hand and been rewarded the pot, I was so suprised that I was getting a pot shipped to me that I tipped the dealer a lot more than I should have. :P

Re: Ethical thing / best hand not winning at showdown
 

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Unless he tables his hand, you shouldn't say anything. If he put his cards faceup on the table and the dealer miscalled his hand, then you should say something.



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Re: Ethical thing / best hand not winning at showdown
 

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This situation occurred as I just sat down in a 10/20 at my local casino. I took the 4 seat and it was one of the first hands I saw at the table, I was not involved in the hand. The 8 seat raised and the 3 seat (on my immediate right) called. Both are experienced players and I know them both and am friendly with both etc.

Flop was something like A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 seat checks, 8 seat bets, 3 seat calls.

Turn is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 seat now bets, 8 seat calls.

River is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 seat bets, 8 seat calls.

3 seat announces "Queen" and shows Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for Queen high no flush. 8 seat looks at it quickly and looks mad and begins to muck but clearly flashes the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I realize he thinks 3 seat has the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for some reason. Both the 3 seat and I see the flashed cards from across the table but he mucks them face down and the dealer pushes the pot to the 3 seat.

I am friendly with the 8 seat and like him a whole lot better than the 3 seat, so I feel a bit bad for him. I watch 3 seat to see if he is going to say anything but he begins stacking and I quietly say to him "you're gonna take that that way?" And he sorta gives me a dirty look and shrugs and I shake my head and say nothing more.

Anyone handle this differently?

-DeathDonkey

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The way i see things if you dont have cards you should STFU! Seat 8 misread his oppenents hand, the oppenent did nothing unethical, Seat 3 mucked its over.

Re: Ethical thing / best hand not winning at showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unless he tables his hand, you shouldn't say anything. If he put his cards faceup on the table and the dealer miscalled his hand, then you should say something.



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Yes, this happened in an Omaha hi / low game I was playing the other day. Guy called straight as he tabled his hand, and the opponent showed down a higher straight. As the dealer was starting to muck the "losing" hand, I piped up because he had two baby diamonds for a flush. I kind of felt bad "taking" the pot from the guy with the higher straight, but it's not his pot to take, and I feel it's anybody's responsibility to make sure the winning hand gets the pot, as long as it's tabled.

Re: Ethical thing / best hand not winning at showdown
 

Once tabled, it is primarily the dealer's responsibility for calling the hand. If the dealer gets it wrong, it is up to the other players to point this out immediately.

It is the player's responsibility to table his cards. Failing to do so means he gets no protection and his hand is dead.

I won one of my biggest pots at the end of a 12 hour session, when I angrily mucked my "losing" set face up. I didn't notice that the fourth club that hit the river also paired the board. Had I flashed my set to the other player, then mucked face down, I would not be entitled to the pot.

Re: Ethical thing / best hand not winning at showdown
 

Depends on how fast the guy with the J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] went through the flash/muck/realize process.

If a guy flashes his hand to the people around him as he folds (which I hate, BTW, even when I'm one of the guys being flashed. Though I hate it less then because of the free info) and he has the winner, I'm going to point it out if I see it. I had this happen when a guy was flashing/staring at a straight flush that he didn't see, disgusted at losing to a K-high flush from a donkey.

I don't care if I'm in the hand or not, it's in the best interest of the game in general for the best/right hand to win the pot, and I'll do that for anyone so it's not like I'm playing favorites. Likewise, if some clown is flashing his hand before a fold, I'll tell anyone that asks what it was. If the flasher gets pissed, he can stop flashing and showing everyone how he can make the "tough fold" or how he had the "best hand" and has to fold it because the "fish" sucked out on him again.

Re: Ethical thing / best hand not winning at showdown
 

I was wondering about this.

I was playing a Baby Omaha game a couple months ago, and saw the low pot awarded to the wrong guy. Cards were tabled, and clueless dealer and involved players didn't see the proper low because it was a low board with lots of counterfeiting in both hands. Since I wasn't in the hand, I took the STFU approach and let it go.

Still, I've been wondering what I really should have done.

Re: Ethical thing / best hand not winning at showdown
 

I always hate to see someone win a pot with a losing hand, but at the same time why can't people just pay attention? I would never let a pot go unless I clearly saw both of my opponets hole cards or asked the dealer what he had.

At the start of the thread I believe you said both of these players were experienced. I would think this is pretty much inexcusable for someone to let a pot go that easily.

Re: Ethical thing / best hand not winning at showdown
 

I don't understand how people could do that either. But then, I can't understand how someone calls 3 cold on the flop with T5o on a board of AK7, and I've seen it so who knows?

I did the opposite once, where I had KQ [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and another guy had KQo. Flop came ATx with two [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], we hit the J on the turn and went raise happy. The river was a 3rd diamond, but by now I'd forgotten I had diamonds because I was in "we both have KQ and are chopping" mode, so I just call his river raise of my bet and say "I think we've got the same hand".

I flip over my flush, the dealer calls it and I feel like ass for telling the guy were going to chop. Sure, I saved him some $$ and I was freerolling from the flop, but I still felt like a donkey for forgetting I had diamonds.