Re: interesting 20-40 commerce hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fun hand to watch

[/ QUOTE ]

until the river pairs the 2. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: interesting 20-40 commerce hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
stacks: me ~10K villian ~7K
relevant reads: villian is aggressive but good, solid player, but not afraid to make moves.

villian's read of me: views me as a thinking player but definately LAG. knows i'm more then capable of betting w/air if i sense weakness. also i believe he has picked up on the fact that i like to overbet strong hands on the river. (for LAPOKER17 this is karga).

i limp after one limper w/red JJ.
two or three limpers and he checks his BB.

flop comes 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

checked to me i pot it for ~ $260.
villian is only caller.

turn is 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

check, check.

river is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

villian checks i bet $700
he checkraises me to $2200.

thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would put him on an overfull or the quads. 6s full of 3s and Ts full of 3s more likely than quads.

Re: interesting 20-40 commerce hand
 

Oops, didn't notice that the 3rd 3 fell on the river. That changes things. Yes I agree, don't check behind. I don't like being check-raised there though. I really want to call but I'm not sure that it's a good idea.

Re: interesting 20-40 commerce hand
 

Ok ... this is 3rd attempt at a response to this, here goes:

Villain sees the flop in the BB for free. There are 6 ways that he can have the overfull and a bunch of ways that he can hold the 3. He's calling your flop bet with any 3, and 66-TT. Bigger pairs would have been heard from before the flop and he folds most everything else if he's solid.

Villain views you as a thinking player so he doubts that you'd pot a paired flop with a flush draw so he's not afraid when it hits on the turn. If he check-raises the turn with a 3 he folds everything he's beating and gets called by 66/TT so I don't think he was going for a check-raise here with a 3.

So, on the river, he doesn't have a 3 since he would have lead that on the turn (except maybe if his kicker was a big diamond). So that leaves us with 66-TT. 77-99 is far more likely than 66 or TT so call. Couple this with the fact that he's hoping that you put him on a 3 since he saw the flop for free and this is definitely a call.

Results?

Re: interesting 20-40 commerce hand
 

All the usual stuff counts here. Make the read. He thinks you have a ten. If he's nonaggressive, you fold. If he'd do that with a ten hoping to get you to fold your ten, you call. If he'd do that with a flush hoping to get you to fold your ten, you call. If he'd airball it a fair amount of the time, you call.

Since it is the Commerce, where half the players are crazy, without a read I call. Show me the overboat if you got it.

Sidenote: By limping preflop and checking the turn, you still kept the pot small even after calling the river raise.

Re: interesting 20-40 commerce hand
 

when the hand went down, there was this tilting jerkoff on the table that was being a real ass and he called the clock on me after like 30 seconds of deliberation.
not trying to make an excuse i just don't think i thought the hand through well enough before making my decision.

i ended up folding, however right after i did i was sick.
no way villian puts me on JJ, and since i have an LAG image there is a good chance he doesn't give me much credit for a hand.

the T on the turn is irrelevant because its a diamond so he knows i wasn't on a flush draw and hit the ten, so the most likely hand for me to be holding in his mind is a mid pocket pair or a six.

in fact after i folded he showed me 99, thinking it was the best hand.

i don't completely understand his checkraise, because he knows i'm not stupid enough to call him w/ a six in that spot so if i do call he's probably beat, but after the hand he said that he was thinking the same thing i was about the ten on the turn and he knew i was smart enough to know that so he thought i might put him on a six and call his "value" raise with 77, 88, or a naked six, which is what he put me on.

in retrospect i know that if i bet the river i should either be firmly committed to calling any reasonable raise, or i should have bet enough that he could only raise me with a better hand.

ie: if i would have bet 1K it would make it a lot harder for him to value raise me on the river with a worse hand.

also, since i know he knows i like to overbet the pot with really strong hands and since i didn't, i should have been more prone to calling his raise since my pot size bet indicated weakness.

also i should have taken into account that the way i played the hand in no way indicated to him i had anywhere near as good a hand as JJ so i definately should have called.

and i think had i thought about the hand for more then 30 secs, i would have made the call, in fact i had the chips counted out and was close, but i hate calling when i feel rushed and when its close for me in that situation i usually just fold, rather then make a bad decision and go on tilt for a bad call.

Re: interesting 20-40 commerce hand
 

That's actually pretty funny. Did you tell him what you laid down?

Here I am praising his play, and he didn't even know what he was doing.

Re: interesting 20-40 commerce hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
also i should have taken into account that the way i played the hand in no way indicated to him i had anywhere near as good a hand as JJ so i definately should have called.


[/ QUOTE ]

i used to have this problem when playing live. id underrepresent my hand, then forget to call when they take advantage of my "weakness".

Re: interesting 20-40 commerce hand
 

i hope you feel entitled to clock that guy every time you get a chance

Re: interesting 20-40 commerce hand
 

he had no idea how powerful you were.