Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

IMO bridge is a much more interesting game than poker.

But who cares what I think? Or what you think? As long as our primary card-playing objective is winning money, the fish will decide what game we are going to play.

Read the literature. Poker games where the good players have too large an advantage eventually die. Your desire for a much larger advantage is equivalent to wishing for the fish to almost never win.

People won't keep coming back to a game where they always lose. You can sheer a sheep over-and-over, but you can only butcher it once.

PS: Enjoy NL ring hold'em while it lasts. The good players probably have too big an edge for it to remain popular in the long run.

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

[ QUOTE ]
IMO bridge is a much more interesting game than poker.

But who cares what I think? Or what you think? As long as our primary card-playing objective is winning money, the fish will decide what game we are going to play.

Read the literature. Poker games where the good players have too large an advantage eventually die. Your desire for a much larger advantage is equivalent to wishing for the fish to almost never win.

People won't keep coming back to a game where they always lose. You can sheer a sheep over-and-over, but you can only butcher it once.

PS: Enjoy NL ring hold'em while it lasts. The good players probably have too big an edge for it to remain popular in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent points. But, the fish can and do win in a game like 7-stud. They chase, street after street, looking for that miracle card (as evidenced when I had three 9's on the board and this guy had 8/5 of spades showing and 4/7 in the hole and was chasing his one out for the straight flush)

Their chasing usually wins them a pretty big pot, so they're always chasing those big pots, and usually paying you off except for the occassional hand or session where they crush you.

You're giving the fish way too much credit when you talk about them up and leaving a game. They love the action, they enjoy betting and betting and raising, it's entertainment and excitement for them, it's not about the money (I've had people drive over an hour to my home game to play for 20 bucks, crazy, but they do it)

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

I agree that for almost all people, poker is definitely not about the money.

It's about socializing and getting out of the house, having a safe place to get drunk and ogle girls in, having a chance to feel smarter than others or blessed by God with your incredible luck, the stimulation of all the noise and people and general hope and desperation in the air, the illusion that you might strike it at least a little bit rich, at least for a day -- anything but money!

If it were about money, people wouldn't move up so quickly in limits on games they don't even know well, would care about the math, would study the games very seriously, would be flooding the 2+2 forums literally by the millions, wouldn't drink while playing or walk in the door stoned, and wouldn't throw cute girls chips at the table. They would play games that were the most profitable for them, not the most fun for them. They would treat it like something they did for money, not for almost every other reason under the sun.

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

I don't play 7-card stud and I didn't write about it in my post. OP spoke of a huge edge in 7-card stud but my impression from general reading is that it's actually a sound mixture of skill and luck.

I do believe that it is essential that the fish win on a frequent basis. That means entire sessions and not just individual pots. Constantly losing is extremely discouraging and takes the fun out of almost any game for almost everyone.

Selective memory is an awesome force that allows many fish to be "winners", but it can't operate unless the fish goes home a winner once in a while.

Mason has written a number of good essays in this area.

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

girls don't have to do with poker girls are no where aroudn poker

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

The Commerce Casino and occasionally some of the other L.A. casinos have plenty of women in them. There's a bar, a restaurant, the Chinese section is party central, some of the cocktail waitresses are absolute stunners and you get some damn cute dealers, and occasionally you even see a cute woman or two playing. The place is packed on a Friday or Saturday night. You can go there just to grind out poker, but plenty people go there just for the bar or buffet, to socialize, whatever. Men and women.

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

If you are bored with NLHE's format or simply don't like the dynamics of the game, that's fine as it is an issue of taste.

If you are unsatisfied with your overlay you should either work hard at improving your game or invest in a shotgun and skimask as those are the only viable means I can see for beating cash NLHE in terms return on investment.
fim

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are bored with NLHE's format or simply don't like the dynamics of the game, that's fine as it is an issue of taste.

If you are unsatisfied with your overlay you should either work hard at improving your game or invest in a shotgun and skimask as those are the only viable means I can see for beating cash NLHE in terms return on investment.
fim

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the game, don't get me wrong. What I don't like is that it's making it difficult to find 7-stud, stud hi/lo and Omaha hi/lo games, EVERYTHING is hold 'em based now. I like to play a variety of games, I get bored just playing the same game all the time.

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

you should play tourneys then....the World Poker Challenge at Reno Hilton had 15 entrants into the $500 PLO game....i thought that was a misprint at first but then I saw 17 entrants, 5 rebuys and 2 add-ons in the $500 PLHE game. Maybe anything that isn't NL is dying.

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

[ QUOTE ]
you should play tourneys then....the World Poker Challenge at Reno Hilton had 15 entrants into the $500 PLO game....i thought that was a misprint at first but then I saw 17 entrants, 5 rebuys and 2 add-ons in the $500 PLHE game. Maybe anything that isn't NL is dying.

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I'm stuck up in Massachusetts, with the only place for action that's close enough for me being Foxwoods (and they suck, their service for poker players is terrible, because they have no competition)

And I, unfortunately, cannot afford to take trips out West just yet. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]