Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

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If opponents know that he also raises with super-premium hands (QQ+), they will be less likely to push over the raise. In effect, the raise is either really good, or sort of good; the big hands protect the sort of good hands. Right?

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I think this is right on. It goes along with "Shania." Say there are 6 hands he raises here with...A8-AT and AA-QQ. Players in the blinds won't be able to push back junk because of the threat of premium hands. If they do...you can easily muck A8 without much hesitation. However, they will also play back at you more when you have QQ-AA.

If they call, you still have an okay hand with position and can make a post flop decision.

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

Now I understand. Thanks for educating me. Never thought about it like that. Makes perfect sense.

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

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Someone asked about A8o..Id probably raise to 250 with that hand, as I would with big hands like QQ as well.

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Why would you raise 250 w/A8o but push w/AQ? Aren't you faced with the same tough decision if one of the blinds calls and you miss the flop and have to decide whether to c-bet or not? And if one of the blinds pushes, you're going to call, aren't you? Then why not push? I don't understand the reason for playing the two hands differently.

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I have no intention of calling a reraise with A8o. btw moving allin preflop with A8o is quite reasonable as well. What I don't understand is why youd think that AQo and A8o have the same value preflop when you are reraised for 10x the BB!

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

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If opponents know that he also raises with super-premium hands (QQ+), they will be less likely to push over the raise. In effect, the raise is either really good, or sort of good; the big hands protect the sort of good hands. Right?

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I think this is right on. It goes along with "Shania." Say there are 6 hands he raises here with...A8-AT and AA-QQ. Players in the blinds won't be able to push back junk because of the threat of premium hands. If they do...you can easily muck A8 without much hesitation. However, they will also play back at you more when you have QQ-AA.

If they call, you still have an okay hand with position and can make a post flop decision.

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Well Im raising with a bit more than that. And I open push with ATo probably, the hand just has too much value IMO to raise with the idea of folding when you have only 16x BB, and only 12.5x effectively when dealing with the BB.

I just avoid all the BS. It seems to work great for me. For the most part you want to avoid confrontations in sit and gos unless you have a premium hand and or you are dominating the opponent. This is due to the pay structure of the event. I wouldn't play this the same way if the pay structure was top heavy or if it was a MTT or whatever.

For all those times you are convincing someone to reraise you with some crap like A6 (Which they wont do so often), they will also reraise you with stuff like 44, 55, 66 which is a huge -EV blow if they were going to fold to an allin bet. They will also call preflop sometimes which is a situation I find unbelievably annoying. There are so many difficult flops to play. I am just going to take my huge EV by pushing and run. AQo doesn't seem strong enough for me to expect to earn over $15-$20 just by making a normal PF raise.

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

btw the above is just my feeling on the matter. Im sure that making a normal raise is totally fine, but it goes completely against my style in sit and gos.

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

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What I don't understand is why youd think that AQo and A8o have the same value preflop when you are reraised for 10x the BB!

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i forgot we were dealing w/situation where you had more than 10x bb. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

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I wouldn't play this the same way if the pay structure was top heavy or if it was a MTT or whatever.


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btw, how would play be different if payout was top heavy: winner take all or 70/30?

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

I would probably make a normal raise with AQo if the pay structure was 70-30 ish, because now getting action is more favorable and there are fewer downsides.

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

That's what I normally do with stack size about this size. Raise about 20% of stack (which would be about 3 BB's) and follow with a bet of the same size if checked to and the flop is missed. This often picks up an extra 3xBB, even if the flop is missed (after all, it usually misses the other guy too). If everything goes wrong, with over 15xBB to start with, you wind up with close to 10xBB, instead of being gone.

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

Running this on SNGPT, assuming as average calling range, AQo is the worst recommended pushing hand (i.e., just barely good enough to push). If one assumes a loose calling range, that doesn't change. Only a "maniac" calling range lowers it down to AJo.

It seems to me the problem with pushing AQo is that you can make more by making a standard raise and following it up with a continuation bet. Even if this goes wrong, you still have about 10BB left. You have a good chance of picking up an extra 3BB by playing this way, plus a better chance of getting all-in against a worse hand (i.e. a weaker Ace is probably more likely to attempt a re-steal here than call).

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

tewall your settings for SNGPT are wrong by a longshot. Also please for the love of god turn off your minimum advantage requirements. Anything above .2% is golden, and anything between .1-.2 is quite good as well IMO. AJo is clearly a +EV push as well as well as some other weaker hands.

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

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tewall your settings for SNGPT are wrong by a longshot. Also please for the love of god turn off your minimum advantage requirements. Anything above .2% is golden, and anything between .1-.2 is quite good as well IMO. AJo is clearly a +EV push as well as well as some other weaker hands.

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So you're willing to push +.1% hands? What if it was a $55? What if it was 7-handed?

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

Im willing to, but it depends on the situation. When the blinds get high enough compared to your stack, you should often take the slightest edge you can get because there is no room to manuever. Anyway it really depends, I do fold plenty of +.1% edges but they usually involve me pushing with any 2, and Im dealt some crap hand thats embarrassing to push and will hurt my image if called. For instance, if I always take these .1% edges, many of my other edges will drop down in the future if people are paying attention.

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

Ok , but when there are still 6-7 players remaining, or the other players are all huge donks, you SHOULD use a minimum edge higher than .3% or something like that right?

Because in those situations people will often bust out without your help. That's the whole point of a minimum edge, as far as I know.

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

Thanks!

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

Not sure about that DonkBluffer....When the blinds are too high compared to your stack, usually that min edge goes out the window. I mean I have been doing extremely well in sit and gos by not forgoing many +EV plays, or at least not doing so intentionally.

Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'
 

Exactly, "playing poker"... ie position, reads, etc. I think i might "play" for too long into tourneys, but in this case it might be worth it. At least you're still well in the game, and reasonably comfortable when worst case hits.