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Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
Great thread SkipperBob and great reply Jbrochu.
A person needs to do what they want in life and they need to think about the consequences. I went to college for a long time and never graduated. I did a lot of "whatever I wanted to do" for a long time. I bought some land and that forced me to cave in to the pressure of monthly payments and got a job. I ran a business and I just might run one again. I have minimized my expenses so that I can maximize my freedom. I bought the cheap land because all of my tiny income was going to rent and that is -EV. I play poker for fun but I do set goals. I think that next year I will try to win 10K over the year and over the next few years I will try and pay for 10 acres of vacant land that I just bought for 25K with poker winnings. I also set anti-poker goals. Wasting a nice day playing poker when I can go outside just does not make sense. Play those games at night. I shoot for less than 30hrs/week at poker. Folks who want to be different than everyone else and to do there "own thing" or "what they want" need to be aware that being different is not an easy road. Go for it! You can do it perhaps but it WILL be a bumpy road. Folks that try and tell the first group "what to do" and "how to act" and how to "be prepared" for life and [censored] need to be aware that group one does not like being told what to do or how to act. A good poker player has a good brain, maybe an addictive or compulsive personality but if they can do one thing well they can think. So as the new year approaches all you wannabe pros should think for a bit. Below is my opinion on a number of things. College: College is a doorway to a decent selection of work. I think most work s*cks but somewhere in my thirties I found I had to have a job of some sort. I got lucky cause I knew internet programming and the market was hot. So my college years have yet to pay me much directly. I assume that there are hidden benefits like social skills connections etc. Without a windfall like the internet boom or the ability to survive until something like that comes along, college is a good thing. Without computers I assume that the college that I do have would keep me from a wall-mart type job and into something better. I have yet to find a job that I liked well enough to work 40 hours a week for more than a few months. I would rather live under a bridge than face a year in year out day to day grind. I honestly wish I could deal with the grind but I can not. I have found very good work that is part time. I got very lucky. I waited and searched and waited and searched and then I got lucky. Sort of like set-farming in NL games. I caught my set.. LOL. DEBT: Avoid debt at all costs. If you want to live your own life and be in control of what you do then debt is one sure way to give up control. With that in mind I am not sure if the college degreee is worth 60K of student loan debt. If you are going big time into debt to pay for school then you had better party like a maniac cause those monthly payments will hinder your freedom on down the road. Running you own business: Man that is a pain. Give it a try cause it can be better than working for someone else but avoid large sums of debt if you can. POKER: There is no time like the present to be a good poker player. I can play in a local unraked tournament 7 nights a week. I can play online all day long. This reminds me of the internet boom that I was lucky enough to catch. This good fortune is not likely to last. So get it while you can. Do not burn any bridges. Stay out of debt. Understand that doing things "differently" has some costs. But if you cringe when someone recommends you act "normally" then go for it and be different. Just do not assume that being different is going to be easy. =================================== I just tried to get a loan on my "different" house and it did not happen. Ignore the system but do not be bitter when the same system decides to ignore you. I spent my life trying not to fit into little boxes, but when I went for a loan they had a whole list of checkboxes that I did not fit into. Great I had won !!! I did not fit into the boxes, I did not get a loan. Being a poker pro will not fit into any boxes on down the road. Be prepared for that. If you want to slip back into the normal system on down the road find a way to do both. I keep a shell of a business alive and work for myself so that I can show a solid work history if I need to get another job. My resume looks decent even though I have a lot of free time. I don't know. I guess you can plot your own course but be prepared for a bumpy road. A bumpy fun crazy road. Contingency plans can only help so use your poker brains and think a bit. I would go for pro but all this sitting, and computer screens and the like is just lame. If ESPN would just start airing the World Series of Fishing then I would find a hobby that really pays and is healthy and fun. Like any of you college age folks listen to any one else anyhow [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] -- tjh |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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ethnic group to become highly successful.Indy [/ QUOTE ]Which group are you thinking about in particular that has a so much easier path to high success than the non-ethnic group? |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
This is my first post here, I've been lurking awhile, but this really got my interest.
I'm 33, got a civil engineering degree and have been working full time for seven years. Yes, that's an 8 year graduation plan. I had too much fn fun. I switched majors 6 times and easily had enough credits upon graduation for a P.h.D. Too bad they were spread all over the place. My first job paid $30k in 1999. I'm now in the mid six figures. I do what I went to school for. I build bridges & roads. Everything I thought I wanted. I've got money, I'm married (no kids) and live in SoCal. What could be better? Then why am I miserable. Everyone is proud of me. Everyone is impressed with what I do. I have a lot of respect and a bit of prestige. So, why am I miserable? The past seven years are a blur. I've accomplished a ton, but at what expense. Hardly a vacation, and no change in sight. Daily grind is out the door at 6am, home at 6pm. No life. Weekends are a blur. The only saving grace I have is I haven't loaded myself down w/ kids, mortgage, car payments and debt like the rest of society. Why? Cause then i'd really be phucked and have this career tied around my neck. What's the point? My best time was college...BY FAR. School itself sucked, but the social interaction, learning experiences are PRICELESS. It doesn't matter if you're not going to get a degree and use it. JUST GET IT. It's so much easier at that age than later. Life is a long road. Don't be trying to catch up. You won't regret having that degree. If I had it to do all over again? I'd get my degree, and if I was in a position of talent or had any poker skill, I'd give it a shot and do what you love, I'd go for it. Who cares if what you do is socially acceptable if you're gonna wake up one day at 65 and not remember your life cause you did what everyone said you should |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
If I fail as a professional poker player, which in all honesty seems inevitable, it will be due to my own shortcomings in areas of my personality and character.
The cards are the easy part. I have 100% winning confidence in NL ring games and 88% winning confidence at the $55s. My sense of worth has always been tied to my immediate success and failure (which is why I am no longer a football coach). And the swings of the bankroll manifest themselves in my emotions and it is very difficult to be a functioning member of society when you feel like world's champ one hour and a total failure the next. The most financially secure I have ever been was when I was working and playing poker. I do not regret my decision to turn pro. It was the decision I needed to make at the time I needed to make it. If I can last one year (the end of March) I will feel a genuine sense of accomplishment. I will also need to decide at that time if I have the intangible qualities and if my personal disposition is best suited for this kind of life. I am also at a very difficult time, personally, and the need to have friends and human contact beyond screen names and PMs is becoming more important to my overall happiness. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
One freaking loss and you change your avitar? For shame!
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Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
skipperbob,
One note about being pro for a year at B&M...it usually helps if you're a winning player, [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Yugoslav |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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What's the point? My best time was college...BY FAR. School itself sucked, but the social interaction, learning experiences are PRICELESS. It doesn't matter if you're not going to get a degree and use it. JUST GET IT. [/ QUOTE ] So, you had a great social life and learned a bit about life. Absolutely nothing says the only place you can do that is in college. You say you're smart not to have piled up debt, but most college grads finish school with lots of debt -- debt they likely wouldn't have were it not for school. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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You say you're smart not to have piled up debt, but most college grads finish school with lots of debt -- debt they likely wouldn't have were it not for school. [/ QUOTE ] College is valuable but is it worth 60K in debt ?? I doubt it. I was/am too flaky to manage that much debt. This whole "student loan == financial assistance" is BS. Loaning any old 20 year old who comes along 30K is foolish for both parties. It certainly is not guaranteed to "help" the 20 year old. The smartist (spelling humor...heh heh) thing someone could do is to pay for college with poker winnings. [ QUOTE ] friends and human contact beyond screen names and PMs is becoming more important to my overall happiness. [/ QUOTE ] I hear that !!! I programmed for a few years and all this sitting in front of a monitor stuff is getting old. I worked from home programming and slowly went crazy, a good day of freelance coding meant no human contact. I refuse to let Poker do the same thing. Now I teach computer stuff so I get to talk to people. The internet part of poker is a double edged sword. -- tjh |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
Thanks for starting this retarded thread SFB.
I don't even think I can accept your free bevos & pizza next time around, [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]. Yugoslav <font color="white">Okay...fine....I'll accept [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].</font> |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
Wise thoughts.
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Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
I already graduated college in June, with a degree in math. The "normal" course is to kiss ass and lie till I get a job, kiss ass and lie till I get a raise, kiss ass and lie till to keep from being fired when the company downsizes, and pray the company doesn't cut my retirement benefits.
Frankly, I don't like kissing ass and lying my whole life so I'll play poker as long as I can. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
Debt, why does every college student need to go into debt up to their eyeballs to graduate. So they can "study full time and devote their efforts to the classroom?" Get a friggin job, use poker, moneymanage. Go to J.C. for two years and transfer. Don't go to Harvard. There are a ton of reasonably priced schools that a half-way responsible person can afford w/o mortgaging their future. What ever happened to working and school?
I bartended three nights a week, lifeguarded summers and picked up odd jobs around campus to pay for school and my apartment and graduated after SEVEN years of school with no debt. Debt is an excuse. Most people don't want to go to school cause they're lazy. It's not easy. Things in life that are worth having are not easy. A college degree is worth having. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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A college degree is worth having. [/ QUOTE ] Not to everyone. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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Don't go to Harvard. [/ QUOTE ] Harvard is still probably +EV, although not as much in the past. Don't go to an expensive second-tier school though. Like Yale. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
For some, a college degree is very valuable, for others it has next to no value, for yet others it has negative value. I don't have a problem with college, I have a problem with blanket statements like: get your degree, you won't regret it.
I would not have nearly so much trouble with a statement like: get vocational training, you won't regret it. But, not every college degree or college course is vocational training. And, there's plenty of vocational training that is done outside of college. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
Bleh, this post has sort of devolved into a college/no college debate, which wasn't the point sfb was trying to make.
I went to college, and I'm almost done with my MS (CS). I've been 'working for the man' for about 9 years. It's going well for me. I enjoy the work, etc. It's not for everyone though, I know plenty of people who would hate what I do. But that's not the point either. The key to what sfb is saying is to have options. Noone wants to be painted into a corner and feel like they have no choice in the way they live their life. Without reads, I say college is +EV. But, everyone has their own dream to chase and muse to follow. I have lots of friends who dropped out and are doing just fine. Just go into it with your eyes open, and make your own decisions based on the information you have. Most of the folks on the list are young enough to bounce back if they hit a wall, with poker, college, work, life, etc. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
Going pro is a great fit for some people, a good fit for other people and a terrible fit for most people. It looks appealing to a whole lot of people though.
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Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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Ed Millers articles drive me insane for some reason. Quotes like the following are pretty insulting: "I think people are dropping out of college because they see poker as their “way out.” Poker isn’t a way out of anything. It’s a game, and it can provide some nice extra cash. Some really nice cash if you are good. But eventually you are going to have to (or at least want to) live like a normal person again. Normal people finish college." Anyway there are a lot of things that "normal" people do that aren't very appealing to me. Also who is he to say how someone else is going to want to live. [/ QUOTE ] Listen, I never said the article didnt have many relevant and important points. However he just sometimes makes quotes that are ignorant and insulting. I don't have to or want to ever go to college like a "normal" person, which is what the above sentence basically says that anyone reading the article would want to do. I mean you just have to read critically for a few seconds to see how ridiculous the final sentence of the paragraph is. It states in clear English that you must go to college or want to go to college to be a "normal" person. He makes a sweeping generalization about how others should want to live their lives. I find such comments offensive. How about if I told everyone here with a "normal" job about how stupid it was of them to be "working", and that they should just learn to 8 table the $215s and get a 10% ROI and make like 1600 per day working 8 hours, and then went on to tell you how you could make more money doing this than your regular job, and that because of this, you should attempt to choose this route in life. Of course this is ridiculous and I would never attempt to tell other people how to live their lives. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
I couldn't agree more.
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Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
I've played pro for two years. I'm now going to start college next semester.
I'm not going to comment much on this just because so much simply depends on the individual. All I will say is that right now it's so easy to make a living playing poker anybody can do it. Just eight tabling 3/6 you can easily make over 80k a year which for a young single person is a lot of money compared to if they were in the workforce. When the bubble bursts you won't be making nearly as much as you are now. You will have to play much better, much longer, for less money. No one is going to talk someone out of attempting to go pro but keep in mind the reason so many people fail to go pro sucessfully is because it's a tough gig. Right now it's cake but in a few more years that won't be the case. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
Poker is just a way for me to put capital together, so it wouldn't bother me if the 'bubble' did burst in a few years time.
"When the bubble bursts" That is just your opinion. Saying 'bubble' makes it sound like online poker is a fad, and it's not. It's popularity may not increase as much as it has done recently, but there's no reason to expect anything extreme. "You will have to play much better, much longer, for less money" Again, you're assuming things will get MUCH tougher. Much better, much longer and for less money?? Are you serious? You're acting as if our hourly rates will be cut 75% or something. "Right now it's cake but in a few more years that won't be the case. " That's what they were saying a few years ago. You're being a bit dramatic there. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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while I am still in college and plan to finish while doing as little as possible, I find it depressing that everyone says those were the best years of my life...What am I going to do for the next 60-70 years? I'm sorry but I really just hate hearing that phrase. You can still have as good of time when you are 40, I am sure of it. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry I didn't mean to depress you. Take note I'm 23 years old. I've only been out of college one year. All I have to compare my college years to is basically the elementary, middle, and high school years of my life, and compared to those, college blew them away. I'm definitely not saying the rest of your life compared to your college years is going to suck, as I have no authority to say that! All I'm trying to say is that it's a once in a life time experience. I'm not saying it's your only chance to live happily. Even though I'll treasure those memories forever, I really really hope down the road I don't still consider those the best years of my life. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
It's a good idea to have a backup plan, but that doesn't have to be a college degree. Anyone who dropped out of college to go pro probably isn't corporate material anyway, and these days that's what a degree usually prepares you for.
Instead, always keep your eyes open for a new opportunity. Maybe you'll find something that earns more than poker, or maybe, God forbid, something you enjoy doing everyday. Learn about realestate, open a strip club, etc. If you made the jump to go pro, you've already had to deal with all they naysayers, and that's something most people never find the courage to do. You're already ahead of most "normal" people. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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Going pro is a great fit for some people, a good fit for other people and a terrible fit for most people. It looks appealing to a whole lot of people though. [/ QUOTE ] So true!! So many people think it's fascinating that I'm a professional gambler. They have no idea. I came into gambling strictly by accident. Eking out a small edge from the casinos. Slowly built a bankroll while working a small business as an independent contractor. Started in 1996, by 1998 my gambling income matched my work income, after that gambling exceeded work income. Guess it was early 2000 that I realized I could really make some money. Kept reinvesting my earnings into my bankroll so that I could up my stakes and up my earnings. Began to think about the possibility of going full time. Two years later, house bought with cash, a substantial bankroll (necessary with an approximate 1% edge at high stakes in a volatile game), money to buy a new car with cash, I quit my business. Though I love my freedom, it took me about a year to get over it. I missed my colleagues and clients terribly. Your world gets very narrow as a gambler, you have to really make an effort to connect with the world. You can go where you want when you want. Most people cannot. It's difficult to find people with the same flexibility in their schedules, except other gamblers. You must be able to adapt to change. In my case, once a casino in which I "worked" realized they were losing money, they changed things. Whoops, no income. Back on the road, find another opportunity. I had a casino basically steal $38,000 from me. My freedom and autonomy mean the most to me. But basically this is a non productive endeavor, it can leave one feeling empty. I believe it's important to have other interests and friends for some balance in life. So if you really wanna be a pro, plan for it, make sure you have enough money and no debt. You don't want the inevitable downswings to cause you too much stress. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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I really can't see myself doing much other than playing poker professoinally the next 7-10 years CUZ I'M MAKING BILL GATES MONEY RIGHT NOW . At that point I should have enough passive income to where I can do whatever intrests me at that time CUZ I'M SMART WITH MY MONEY . I love this game and imo its not that hard if you are smart about things AND ARE COACHED AND MENTORED BY SOME OF THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE BUSINESS!! . [/ QUOTE ] FYP not everyone is so lucky... that is the whole point, stories like yours make it seem easy to others, when in reality it has merely come easily to you. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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[ QUOTE ] you need a profound trust and faith in yourself and a complete disregard for the opinions and input of others [/ QUOTE ] How ironic is this coming from a guy who says that I wasn't cut out for this job??????!!!! [/ QUOTE ] from others who don't understand the game or what it takes to be an entrepreneur...if you don't perceive me as having the credibility to make that assessment then take it with a grain of salt. the context in which i wrote that line is that my family is very conservative, christian, puritan work ethic, working for the man and paying taxes is the only good way to leads ones life. running a business at a young age and gambling for a living is seen as poor form in these circles, especially after having spent a great deal of time and money getting pedigreed to work for somebody else. but yes, if i was wrong, and you are meant for this life, then that applies to you as well. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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I have learned so many +EV life situations from this game (including discipline, self control, and money management just to name a few.) [/ QUOTE ] HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Ha. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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[ QUOTE ] I have learned so many +EV life situations from this game (including discipline, self control, and money management just to name a few.) [/ QUOTE ] HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Ha. [/ QUOTE ] Yo, I am slowly improving. I haven't done a line off of a strippers ass in over 3 months. Seriously though, You will not see me at STTFHUC 2 unless I have at least 3k to blow, 50 buyins at the 55s to come back to, and all of my debt payed off. ps. I now hate you more than 66s Unarmed. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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Yo, I am slowly improving. I haven't done a line off of a strippers ass in over 3 months. [/ QUOTE ] Classic... I just blew my morning coffee out both nostrils and all over my keyboard. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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[ QUOTE ] I have learned so many +EV life situations from this game (including discipline, self control, and money management just to name a few.) [/ QUOTE ] HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Ha. [/ QUOTE ] This is what I was thinking. I was only hoping someone else would say it first. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
beefy,
Are you sure it's not that you're better at money management you just happen to not be running bad right now?? Yugoslav |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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This business is HARD...Make sure that your plan to quit your dayjob & become a "poker pro" has a "Plan 'B'" in case Plan 'A' doesn't work....If your reaction to this advice is: "He's an old fool that doesn't know squat"; I hope you will ask the younger posters that know what they are doing. Like = SuitedSixes/Lacky/UnArmed/Irieguy/and others [/ QUOTE ] You are an old fool. If you want success in life is there anything that's not hard? I bet you, you would give all you're congrats and support to a person that would tell you they're quitting there day job to start a business of some sort. Yet 9/10 businesses fail within five years and of that 10% that are still around, 90 % of those will fail eventually. I guess all I'm trying to say is unless you're happy with a 9-5 job making 50k/year nothing will ever come easy in life. |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
I vastly prefer old fools over young punks.
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Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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beefy, Are you sure it's not that you're better at money management you just happen to not be running bad right now?? Yugoslav [/ QUOTE ] Have I said that I am 100% coming to STTFHUC2 yet? |
Re: A Note to \"WannaBe\" Pros
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[ QUOTE ] This business is HARD...Make sure that your plan to quit your dayjob & become a "poker pro" has a "Plan 'B'" in case Plan 'A' doesn't work....If your reaction to this advice is: "He's an old fool that doesn't know squat"; I hope you will ask the younger posters that know what they are doing. Like = SuitedSixes/Lacky/UnArmed/Irieguy/and others [/ QUOTE ] You are an old fool. If you want success in life is there anything that's not hard? I bet you, you would give all you're congrats and support to a person that would tell you they're quitting there day job to start a business of some sort. Yet 9/10 businesses fail within five years and of that 10% that are still around, 90 % of those will fail eventually. I guess all I'm trying to say is unless you're happy with a 9-5 job making 50k/year nothing will ever come easy in life. [/ QUOTE ] I agree Completely....That's a normal "completely", not a Yugo "completely" [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] |
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