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Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
To be sure, "states' rights" is something that most people hear in high school and parrot the rest of their lives in the hopes of sounding educated.
Such a complex event as the War of Northern Aggression can't be singled down to a single factor like "slavery" or "states' rights," with the possible exception of "economics." |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
why don't you guys just lay out the issue right now.
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Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Also, I don't see how the confederate flag represents slavery. The civil war was about states' rights, not slavery. Slavery was a side issue. [/ QUOTE ] I personally think this is BS. The claim that the war was about "states rights" is a bit of semantic munging to make the southern states sound slightly more noble than they actually were, perhaps as a means of mending fences between the two halves of the country. [/ QUOTE ] Do your personal thoughts have any basis in fact? Maybe you should read about the civil war and not rely on what you learned in 10th grade history class. [/ QUOTE ]I think you may have missed his point somewhat. [/ QUOTE ] salty- do you not like tony? i am just wondering, as i like to keep up on the comings and goings of OOT. i have already learned one poster has an IQ of 156 today. |
Re: Controversy over symbols and racism .
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whats the problem with the flag then? [/ QUOTE ] I don't have a problem with it. I do think it has A LOT to do with racism. For those that have never been in the south it's hard to explain. But I don't have a problem with it and I don't have a problem with swastikas. |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Also, I don't see how the confederate flag represents slavery. The civil war was about states' rights, not slavery. Slavery was a side issue. [/ QUOTE ] I personally think this is BS. The claim that the war was about "states rights" is a bit of semantic munging to make the southern states sound slightly more noble than they actually were, perhaps as a means of mending fences between the two halves of the country. [/ QUOTE ] Do your personal thoughts have any basis in fact? Maybe you should read about the civil war and not rely on what you learned in 10th grade history class. [/ QUOTE ]I think you may have missed his point somewhat. [/ QUOTE ] What is the point then? |
Re: Controversy over symbols and racism .
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Edit to note that I am VERY against banning people for rebel flags, swastikas, ghost bumping, stupid polls and pretty much all the [censored] people get banned for each day. [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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why don't you guys just lay out the issue right now. [/ QUOTE ] This topic first came up for discussion in the mod forum. I'm not going to replicate a 100 post thread for lots of reasons, not the least of which is I don't need to. Mat mentioned moving it to a public forum and wacki jumped on the idea by posting it here. I have no idea why he did that. If you want someone to fill in the holes, ask him, not me. |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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why isnt the mod forum transparent to everyone? seems like it should be. [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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To be sure, "states' rights" is something that most people hear in high school and parrot the rest of their lives in the hopes of sounding educated. Such a complex event as the War of Northern Aggression can't be singled down to a single factor like "slavery" or "states' rights," with the possible exception of "economics." [/ QUOTE ] I consider states' rights a very broad topic. Though you are correct that the broader issue is economics. |
Re: Controversy over symbols and racism .
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Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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and not rely on what you learned in 10th grade history class. [/ QUOTE ] 10th grade is exactly where you learn the "states rights" revisionism. This is akin to when people say "It's not about the money, it's the principle". It's about the money. |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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[ QUOTE ] but I'm running off of very very little sleep and I'm engaged in a rather stupid debate. [/ QUOTE ] No one asked you to make this thread. You fvcked up, just admit it. [/ QUOTE ] No, I would of made the thread anyway. I think anyone that is offended by any symbol without looking at it's context is misguided. I also think that people who claim the confederate flag is about slavery need to look at those pictures, study history, and maybe even take a few road trips. |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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Also, I don't see how the confederate flag represents slavery. The civil war was about states' rights, not slavery. Slavery was a side issue. [/ QUOTE ] What the confederate flag represents today has very little to do with what the Civil War was about. Why can't you or wacki understand this? |
Re: Controversy over symbols and racism .
i think its hilarious that the mods debate issues like this
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Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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I also think that people who claim the confederate flag is about slavery need to realize that Kid Rock had a black drummer. [/ QUOTE ] FYP |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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[ QUOTE ] why isnt the mod forum transparent to everyone? seems like it should be. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] I'll bite, why? |
Re: Controversy over symbols and racism .
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I do think it has A LOT to do with racism. [/ QUOTE ] I think racist people have used the Confederare flag as a symbol of their hate. I also think there are a number of people that used the symbol as a part of their Southern heritage. Sadly, for some that heritage includes slavery. I personally like the flag for a number of reasons. 1. It does have a significant historical place here in America. 2. The design is kind of cool 3. It has many strong connotations associated with it. I think the problem is some people in America for whatever reason lump the Confederate flag in with the Nazi flag, and I think that is unfair. |
Re: Controversy over symbols and racism .
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i think its hilarious that the mods debate issues like this [/ QUOTE ] People will debate all sorts of things on internet forums. I believe that many of those who are most interested in this debate would have wanted to discuss it even if they weren't mods. |
Re: Controversy over symbols and racism .
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2. The design is kind of cool [/ QUOTE ] OOT has proven itself to be opposed to this argument. |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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[ QUOTE ] Also, I don't see how the confederate flag represents slavery. The civil war was about states' rights, not slavery. Slavery was a side issue. [/ QUOTE ] What the confederate flag represents today has very little to do with what the Civil War was about. Why can't you or wacki understand this? [/ QUOTE ] The confederate flag symbol, as used in state flags today doesn't represent what the civil war was about, nor does it represent slavery. I don't know the origin of each individual state flag, but I imagine it has to do with the state's history. Isn't the purpose of the flags to represent the hsotry of the state? Why would they ignore a major part of history? |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] but I'm running off of very very little sleep and I'm engaged in a rather stupid debate. [/ QUOTE ] No one asked you to make this thread. You fvcked up, just admit it. [/ QUOTE ] No, I would of made the thread anyway. I think anyone that is offended by any symbol without looking at it's context is misguided. I also think that people who claim the confederate flag is about slavery need to look at those pictures, study history, and maybe even take a few road trips. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not offended by anything in this thread. I'm not offended by real swastikas. I'm not offended by pictures of Jews being tortured in concentration camps. I'm not offended by nearly anything. I don't know why you think I haven't spent enough time on google images to understand history, or why you confuse history with current events. If I find you 10 pictures of black people saying they don't like the confederate flag will that make me right? God damn you're an idiot. I'm going to be in South Carolina next week for my fifth road trip to the south in the last four years. Can I please be considered as wordly as you are for googling pictures of the confederate flag? Give me a fvcking break. |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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[ QUOTE ] Also, I don't see how the confederate flag represents slavery. The civil war was about states' rights, not slavery. Slavery was a side issue. [/ QUOTE ] I personally think this is BS. The claim that the war was about "states rights" is a bit of semantic munging to make the southern states sound slightly more noble than they actually were, perhaps as a means of mending fences between the two halves of the country. [/ QUOTE ] If you search amazon, there are dozens of books talking about the start of the civil war and how it was NOT caused by slavery. Lincoln even said he had no intention of freeing the slaves at his Inaugural Address. |
Re: Controversy over symbols and racism .
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[ QUOTE ] i think its hilarious that the mods debate issues like this [/ QUOTE ] People will debate all sorts of things on internet forums. I believe that many of those who are most interested in this debate would have wanted to discuss it even if they weren't mods. [/ QUOTE ] fair enough |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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[ QUOTE ] I also think that people who claim the confederate flag is about slavery need to realize that Kid Rock had a black drummer. [/ QUOTE ] FYP [/ QUOTE ] I really think everyone should get a FYP limit. Like 3 a month. |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Also, I don't see how the confederate flag represents slavery. The civil war was about states' rights, not slavery. Slavery was a side issue. [/ QUOTE ] What the confederate flag represents today has very little to do with what the Civil War was about. Why can't you or wacki understand this? [/ QUOTE ]who can really say what the flag truely means nowadays? Are you going to base it on some survey conducted throughtout America, or are you going to base it on a story about some dumbfuck hicks in Alabama? I don't mean this as a smart ass answer, but I think it is unfair to assume that most people thinking of racism when they see that flag. [censored], I bet you 90% of kids aged 10-18 don't even know where the flag is from(unless they are southern) |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I also think that people who claim the confederate flag is about slavery need to realize that Kid Rock had a black drummer. [/ QUOTE ] FYP [/ QUOTE ] I really think everyone should get a FYP limit. Like 30 a month. [/ QUOTE ] FYP |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
i dunno, it seems kind of goofy that you guys are off having these secret conversations, which everyone has zero . i guess it would help all the posters see why decisions are made and could explain everything, most decisions do seem to kind of come out of the dark, for example i had no idea that discussing cactus swastikas and the stars and bars was such a big deal.
i dunno, its kind of a crappy point, mostly its just that its funny that you have secret conversations in a secret forum. btw you are totally on point in this thread. |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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Also, I don't see how the confederate flag represents slavery. The civil war was about states' rights, not slavery. Slavery was a side issue. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but a lot of the time racists and white supremacists use it to promote their racist/hate views. It has turned into a symbol for slavery even though it wasn't originally intended. For example, if the stay puff marshmallow was used by white supremacists it would probably end up being offensive even without a giant swastika on its stomach... http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/7...ypufflg8kt.jpg |
Re: Controversy over symbols and racism .
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[ QUOTE ] 2. The design is kind of cool [/ QUOTE ] OOT has proven itself to be opposed to this argument. [/ QUOTE ]dude will you just [censored] off and die. You are seriously worthless. |
Re: Controversy over symbols and racism .
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[ QUOTE ] I do think it has A LOT to do with racism. [/ QUOTE ] I think racist people have used the Confederare flag as a symbol of their hate. I also think there are a number of people that used the symbol as a part of their Southern heritage. Sadly, for some that heritage includes slavery. I personally like the flag for a number of reasons. 1. It does have a significant historical place here in America. 2. The design is kind of cool 3. It has many strong connotations associated with it. I think the problem is some people in America for whatever reason lump the Confederate flag in with the Nazi flag, and I think that is unfair. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know and don't care whether its sybolism is "fair". I agree it has a significant place in American history, but so does the slaughter of millions of indians and I don't think that was a good thing. I agree the design is cool. It may have many strong conotations, I think it has more negative ones. Just to be clear, one more time, I DO NOT WANT THE CONFEDERATE FLAG TO BE BANNED, RESTRICTED, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT! |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
Yup. That is my post. I'm an idiot.
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Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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i dunno, its kind of a crappy point, mostly its just that its funny that you have secret conversations in a secret forum. btw you are totally on point in this thread. [/ QUOTE ] You should know that this thread was very much the exception to the rule. Most of the threads in that forum are "why is this person banned?" or "is this spam?". Largely pretty boring stuff. This one developed because someone had that cactus avatar and one of the mods thought it was a swastika. It branched off quite a bit, as you can tell. |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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Yup. That is my post. I'm an idiot. [/ QUOTE ] I like how on the bottom of the image it has "Stay Puft" yet in your post you wrote what it is commonly mistaken for, "Stay Puff" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] |
Re: Controversy over symbols and racism .
well, all I can say is that we will just agree to disagree. Glad you are not for it being censored. Also, any time anything relating to slavery or racism is discussed in America, tensions and emotion flair. I can't think of another country in the world where people are so afraid of being called racist as America. Maybe thats a good thing.
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Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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[ QUOTE ] I'm looking to apply for a mod job to keep this forum as white as my baby's bottom. PM me wacki if you need extra help. [/ QUOTE ] Lets keep the mods out of this. I highly highly doubt mat will allow people to get banned for this stuff. Most of the people argueing this aren't even for banning. They just think anyone that sports a rebel flag is an inbred redneck racist. [/ QUOTE ] halfway through this thread wacki sure is doing his damnest to get this thing started into a big race fight. every time it veers off course youre right there trying to fan the flames and instigate an argument. ill keep reading and see if you were successful. bwana |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
OK guys, just to clarify. PLEASE DROP THE WHOLE MOD THING. Mat isn't going to allow anyone to get banned over a flag.
This is a discussion if symbols like the confederate flag are symbols of racism and anyone that uses it is symbolizing racism. Many are claiming just that. A lot of this debate happened over IRC. |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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who can really say what the flag truely means nowadays? [/ QUOTE ] People that have first hand experience with those that sport it? |
Re: Controversy over symbols and racism .
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well, all I can say is that we will just agree to disagree. Glad you are not for it being censored. Also, any time anything relating to slavery or racism is discussed in America, tensions and emotion flair. I can't think of another country in the world where people are so afraid of being called racist as America. Maybe thats a good thing. [/ QUOTE ] so you know a lot about the racism issues in sweden i presume? |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
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[ QUOTE ] Yup. That is my post. I'm an idiot. [/ QUOTE ] I like how on the bottom of the image it has "Stay Puft" yet in your post you wrote what it is commonly mistaken for, "Stay Puff" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] also isn't it heil hitler? |
Re: So I guess some people think symbols/posters should be banned.
Naw, I knew it was stay puft, but i just mistyped cause the f and t buttons are so close together.
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