Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

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Ilya, are you quasi?

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Hehe, no. I've played probably 20-30 games with him though.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

I would have been surprised. I've never noticed Ilya posting about his 14 hr runs 38439084309 tabling.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

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It's fine to think this, but it's probably a bad idea to actually fold. It could just as easily be QQ.

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I'm bored tonight and pissed off due to my own mental lapse so I'm gonna flame somebody and it may as well be you (sorry):

No, it can't be QQ. What good player does this near minimum pot odds reraise crap with QQ? Give me a break.

It miiiiight be AK (I've seen it played this way as sort of a semibluff) or little to nothing if he decided he wanted 85 chips. (I'm not saying there's a good chance of that, I'm saying it's theoretically possible.) But it's not QQ unless he misclicked.

I'm probably not folding this, BTW.

edit: 99? 99??? Come ON, he's number 4 on the leaderboard and you think he makes an 85 chip bet 200 with 99?

[/ QUOTE ]

hand I Just played w/ quasifiction hes the SB, I guess QQ is in his range

PartyPoker - NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Tournament | Level: 2 - 9 players (Converter: PGC)

Chip Counts:
Button: 665 Chips
SB: 830 Chips
BB: 885 Chips
<font color="red">Hero: 775 Chips</font>
UTG+1: 650 Chips
MP1: 390 Chips
MP2: 1070 Chips
MP3: 1715 Chips
CO: 1020 Chips

Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Blinds are 15/30

PreFlop
<font color="blue">Hero folds</font>, <font color="green">UTG+1 Calls</font>, <font color="red">MP1 RAISES ($60)</font>, <font color="green">MP2 Calls</font>, <font color="blue">MP3 folds</font>, <font color="blue">CO folds</font>, <font color="blue">Button folds</font>
<font color="red">SB RAISES ($135)</font>, <font color="blue">BB folds</font>, <font color="green">UTG+1 Calls</font>, <font color="green">MP1 Calls</font>, <font color="green">MP2 Calls</font>

(4 players) FLOP: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 630 Chips )
<font color="red">SB BETS ($400)</font>, <font color="blue">UTG+1 folds</font>, MP1 is All-In, <font color="red">MP2 RAISES ($800)</font>
SB is All-In

(3 players) TURN: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 2350 Chips )


(3 players) RIVER: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 2350 Chips )


Final Pot:2350 Chips

edthirtynine shows [ 6c, 6s ] a flush, king high.
QuasiFiction shows [ Qd, Qh ] a pair of queens.
diamond522 shows [ Ad, 7s ] a flush, king high.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

lol...see, this is why you should never put '$22' and 'good' in the same sentence. I stand corrected.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

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lol...see, this is why you should never put '$22' and 'good' in the same sentence. I stand corrected.

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I take back what I just said, I misread. This was obviously a terribly played hand.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

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I would have been surprised. I've never noticed Ilya posting about his 14 hr runs 38439084309 tabling.

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Just wait.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

Here's another "it's gotta be Aces" hand I had tonight - I would have folded except I have a rule where I don't fold KK preflop (absent some extreme circumstance that I have not encounted yet in &gt; 15,000 SNGs).

***** Hand History for Game 3207908336 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $200 Buy-in + $15 Entry Fee Trny:18313878 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Thursday, December 15, 22:02:37 EDT 2005
Table Table 66906 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Well_Sh_t ( $900 )
Seat 2: NutsStayNuts ( $1245 )
Seat 3: Hero ( $900 )
Seat 4: jh9477 ( $1065 )
Seat 5: shadyrooroo ( $935 )
Seat 7: Phish_Stix ( $2080 )
Seat 8: doeson888 ( $1205 )
Seat 9: wildman22222 ( $1105 )
Seat 10: poffic ( $565 )
Trny:18313878 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Kd Kh ]
jh9477 raises [60].
shadyrooroo folds.
Phish_Stix folds.
doeson888 calls [60].
wildman22222 folds.
poffic raises [300].
Well_Sh_t folds.
NutsStayNuts raises [550].
Hero is all-In [870]
poffic: uups
jh9477 folds.
doeson888 folds.
poffic is all-In [265]
NutsStayNuts: i must have a 2 outer
NutsStayNuts calls [335].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, 5h, 6h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 3h ]
NutsStayNuts shows [ Qd, Qc ] two pairs, queens and sixes.
Hero shows [ Kd, Kh ] a flush, king high.
poffic shows [ Ah, Kc ] a flush, ace high.
Hero wins 670 chips from side pot #1 with a flush, king high.
poffic wins 1815 chips from the main pot with a flush, ace high with ace kicker.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

Gramps what if I knwe that YOU were nutsstaynuts....i mean youd basically have to have exactly AA. If you knew that was me, would you still thnik it makes sense to follow your rule?

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

gramps,

This will be your downfall in the first round of the STTFHUC. Your KK will finally run into my obv AA and you will go home crying like a little baby.

Yugoslav

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

It's more just a thing that I play 8+ tables at once. I don't have time to do the analysis to make a fancy fold, and I see so much crap in Level 1&amp;2 at even the 215s, that I just go down swinging with my KK. If you do that every time (go to war PF with KK), I doubt you'll even make one mistake per 1,000 SNGs played.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

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This will be your downfall in the first round of the STTFHUC. Your KK will finally run into my obv AA and you will go home crying like a little baby.

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Oh Yugo, be forewarned of the cruelty of the two-outer on the River with all the chips already at the center of the table...

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

Yes but ok sometimes you know your opponent....against an anon opponent I have a hard time folding KK ever, but against someone you know? I mean sometimes they can only have one hand.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

Raising to 200!, I thought I taught him better than that. He's my brother and I would of folded Ks in a second to him in that position. And I've only laid down Kings once in 5000 games(100% correct so far)

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

what about flat calling the 200 and watching the action?

you'd have a good case for folding this one when it got back to you...

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

Fold KK to heavy action preflop.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

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Ship it! I thought that you posted this because you ended up calling and he didnt have AA, and were going to give a lecture on how to always call! Despite that I stood by my guns and said I'd fold and was correct.

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"Stood by my guns"?

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If you know that hes a very good/tight player, folding probably isnt that bad. In fact based on what you said it may even be correct, but Id really have to know the player myself to make such a statement.

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You seem to be hedging your bets here. You said there were situations where you could fold it, but were pretty inconclusive.

I don't understand the mentality of "Well, I really think this is almost always KK/AA, but as a matter of principle I don't fold KK on level 2" that a couple of people seem to be presenting in this thread. If you're pretty confident it really is going to be KK/AA - and it sounds like there's enough evidence about this player that this is reasonable - folding KK here isn't going to be a huge mistake if it is a mistake at all. It's also not like we're giving up any kind of metagame silliness, because we're neither showing it nor have we made any preflop action.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

I said that I'd fold it based on what he said, but I'd need to get my own feeling for the player. In general I don't like to go by other's reads, because I find that they are usually faulty to begin with.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

QQ/KK/AA/AK are in his range. That thought wouldn't remain in my head for long.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

Does any1 else remember the 2001 WSOP hand where Hellmuth had aces, Phil Gordon had kings, and Matusow had queens? Matusow folded first to Hellmuths raise, and Gordon folded face up, making Hellmuth go ballistic. "Im up against the 2nd and 3rd best starting hands in poker and all I get are the blinds?" It was funny.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

...And for your sake, I hope it is the last time.

I cannot imagine laying down KK in this spot. I reraise 100% of the time and am very happy to get my $$ in here. If he has AA, I start another game.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

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Raising to 200!, I thought I taught him better than that. He's my brother and I would of folded Ks in a second to him in that position. And I've only laid down Kings once in 5000 games(100% correct so far)

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Mud. What does your brother do? I figure he's on pace for about 3500 SNGs this month, or better than 100 per day.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Raising to 200!, I thought I taught him better than that. He's my brother and I would of folded Ks in a second to him in that position. And I've only laid down Kings once in 5000 games(100% correct so far)

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Mud. What does your brother do? I figure he's on pace for about 3500 SNGs this month, or better than 100 per day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Play poker all day every day?

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

This looks like a fold to me. I can't imagine what other hand a good player would make this reraise with. However, I also can't imagine a good player ever making this reraise. Given your info, folding seems to be the best play, but i would prolly be 20 tabling and call and get stacked on the flop.

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

First thing that I thought about was this thread.

50/100 TOURNEY TEXAS HOLD'EM GAME TABLE (NL)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: ME (840)
Seat 2: DARRENS111 (185)
Seat 3: akalias (730)
Seat 5: Tdiddy745 (1125)
Seat 8: sosabosa (2130)
Seat 9: clozer610 (1445)
Seat 10: rwbrich (1545)
rwbrich posts small blind (25)
ME posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ME [ Kd, Kh ]
DARRENS111 folds.
akalias folds.
Tdiddy745 raises (100) to 100
sosabosa folds.
clozer610 raises (250) to 250
rwbrich raises (495) to 520
ME....

Re: First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Raising to 200!, I thought I taught him better than that. He's my brother and I would of folded Ks in a second to him in that position. And I've only laid down Kings once in 5000 games(100% correct so far)

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Mud. What does your brother do? I figure he's on pace for about 3500 SNGs this month, or better than 100 per day.

[/ QUOTE ]


100/day sounds about right(family vacation hurt December). I'm trying to get him to sign up here, but I'll answer for him for now. He's an author who can make a lot more money playing poker. You think he plays a lot now, watch out for January.

Oh and he informs me that he thinks the QQ hand was a quick raise because he was running out of time. Not how he would play it normally obviously.