Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

With the barrier of the speed of light, it is extremely unlikely (effectively impossible) we have been visited.

I think there is a chance that this barrier can be broken with space travel, but it is very unlikely (almost impossible) that this is the case. I think this is the key mistake most of the 26% who voted yes on Q2 are making, because if you think the barrier cant be broken I cant see how any logical person could say its remotely likely we've been visited.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

To everyone who hasn't seen Cosmos,

it's a brilliant mini series from Carl Sagan done 25 some odd years ago. I recommend seeing all 13 episodes, but there is one in particular, "Encyclopedia Galactica" I believe, that deals with this subject. Even today, it's extremely informative and a great watch. This episode even goes into the probability theories.

Check it out,
Ross

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
With the barrier of the speed of light, it is extremely unlikely (effectively impossible) we have been visited.

I think there is a chance that this barrier can be broken with space travel, but it is very unlikely (almost impossible) that this is the case. I think this is the key mistake most of the 26% who voted yes on Q2 are making, because if you think the barrier cant be broken I cant see how any logical person could say its remotely likely we've been visited.

[/ QUOTE ]

Until we have a greater understanding of these topics, human speculation on light travel is just silly.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

I think it is fairly silly to argue about which planets are inhabitable by intelligent life, the mechanisms of evolution would suggests that many plants that would seem uninhabitable to us, would simply develop life forms that are able to survive in the extreme conditions.

Once again, I don't think we have the knowledge available to us to speculate on the extent to which life can mutate and develop under conditions outside of our atmosphere.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

The scientific and intellectual capability of our society is growing exponentially. I am not sure if this is directly related to size of world population, or speed of communication.... It could be related to a number of factors in conjunction. Either way, our scientific growth seems to be gaining momentum not losing momentum, and it is logical to conclude that we will continue to develop at this ever increasing exponential rate forever, barring mass death or extincition.

That said, I expect to be able to speculate intelligently on not just weather life exists on other planets, but instead on the characteristics and mechanisms of the development of life on other planets in my lifetime.

This should coincide with a more in depth understanding of space-time and light travel.

blake

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
With the barrier of the speed of light, it is extremely unlikely (effectively impossible) we have been visited.

I think there is a chance that this barrier can be broken with space travel, but it is very unlikely (almost impossible) that this is the case. I think this is the key mistake most of the 26% who voted yes on Q2 are making, because if you think the barrier cant be broken I cant see how any logical person could say its remotely likely we've been visited.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is to say the speed of light must be exeeded? For all we know, in the event that there is life on another planet, they might have a lifespan of several hundred thousand years. Crazy, yes, but so is any of this talk.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

I think the real question is, what does being visited "look like"? And has -that- happened?

Besides, we already know things traveling faster than the speed of light, it's just not very well known yet and we have no way of using it (atleast consciously) at this time... I don't remember the details very well, but physisists have known for quite some time that a part of the atom(electron? or whatever I don't remember) is impossible to say exactly where it is, you can only say there's a chance it is at a certain place at a certain time. The thing is, this doesn't have to be anywhere near the atom's "centre" at all. There's a chance that it is on the other side of the universe in a split second while it was "here" right before, thus it "travels" extremely fast. So if you could find a way to manipulate this, you could effectively communicate with someone on the other side of the universe, more or less instantly.

Forgive me for not knowing all the details on this nor all the english words for it, but my brother majored or whatever it's called in physics and has explained this a couple times to me, and I've read a couple articles and parts of a book on the subject, although the articles were in swedish so I'm not sure about all the words.

I don't claim to understand much of this but it seems that the conclusion about using it as a way of communication is something we are working on right now, and maybe in x years we can use it for more than just communication, but also for traveling using the same technique, who knows? And who's to say "aliens" haven't been using this for thousands of (earthly) years?

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

Just an FYI-
The pentagon does have detailed plans on what the initial response would be if aliens ever land on US soil. It was in an issue of Discover or Scientific American a while back.

Basically, if some sort of ship touches down the immediate area is evacuated. Juristicion goes to the FBI and the Nuclear Incident Response Team. Any beings on the ship are immediatly taken into custody by the FBI, and the NIR Team takes possesion of the spacecraft.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just an FYI-
The pentagon does have detailed plans on what the initial response would be if aliens ever land on US soil. It was in an issue of Discover or Scientific American a while back.

Basically, if some sort of ship touches down the immediate area is evacuated. Juristicion goes to the FBI and the Nuclear Incident Response Team. Any beings on the ship are immediatly taken into custody by the FBI, and the NIR Team takes possesion of the spacecraft.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, our hubris is so adorable.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just an FYI-
The pentagon does have detailed plans on what the initial response would be if aliens ever land on US soil. It was in an issue of Discover or Scientific American a while back.

Basically, if some sort of ship touches down the immediate area is evacuated. Juristicion goes to the FBI and the Nuclear Incident Response Team. Any beings on the ship are immediatly taken into custody by the FBI, and the NIR Team takes possesion of the spacecraft.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's very interesting...

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the real question is, what does being visited "look like"? And has -that- happened?

Besides, we already know things traveling faster than the speed of light, it's just not very well known yet and we have no way of using it (atleast consciously) at this time... I don't remember the details very well, but physisists have known for quite some time that a part of the atom(electron? or whatever I don't remember) is impossible to say exactly where it is, you can only say there's a chance it is at a certain place at a certain time. The thing is, this doesn't have to be anywhere near the atom's "centre" at all. There's a chance that it is on the other side of the universe in a split second while it was "here" right before, thus it "travels" extremely fast. So if you could find a way to manipulate this, you could effectively communicate with someone on the other side of the universe, more or less instantly.

Forgive me for not knowing all the details on this nor all the english words for it, but my brother majored or whatever it's called in physics and has explained this a couple times to me, and I've read a couple articles and parts of a book on the subject, although the articles were in swedish so I'm not sure about all the words.

I don't claim to understand much of this but it seems that the conclusion about using it as a way of communication is something we are working on right now, and maybe in x years we can use it for more than just communication, but also for traveling using the same technique, who knows? And who's to say "aliens" haven't been using this for thousands of (earthly) years?

[/ QUOTE ]


good post.

This is the quantum eraser experiement it explains some of the ideas if anyone is intersted:

http://www.bottomlayer.com/bottom/ki...scully-web.htm

blake

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

The thing about humanity is we seem to think that we are the biggest and best most intelligent being to hit the universe, we can barely get off the planet and back without dying and yet with utmost certainity people say there is/isnt life out there or that it wouldnt be clever enough to hide itself from us if it was here.

Its not that long ago that most of the scientists of the day thought the earth was flat and we would fall off the end of it, I realise science and understanding has moved on but who knows in the many millions of years before the first caveman came along what life and civilisation has developed on other planets round the universe and how far advanced than us they could be.

I think a lot of ancient civilizations have stories and pictures of vistors in strange headgear, could that be alien visitors, is it people form the future travelling through time, are other dimensions possible, who knows.

I guess in our lifetime the chances are we will not know, I think its interesting that most cultures worshipped gods from primitive times through to now, even our more modern beleifs of God point to either another dimension (ie where heaven or hell is) or higher beings with great powers out there.

Imagine if earth was just some reality tv show for some higher species in the way we keep ant farms or watch big brother. Those that belive god watches over us in effect are saying it is.

I think most people can see that there have been ufo's spotted in recent times, the ones over Belgiuim where jets were scrambled for example, whether any of these are visitors is another matter entirely.

If life was found elsewhere then that to a point could well make all our religions redundant, if intelligent life was found even more so, would the government or say a large organization with scientists working for it like the Vatican ever tell us if they did find it anyway? or would they protect their own beliefs and church. What effect would it have on the economy or world order if it was true and known.

I did read or see somthing one time that suggested films like Close Encounters were preparing us for revelations of other life visiting us (supposedly Speilberg got a lot of army input for that film,), seems like they backed out of telling us if that was true.

I am throwing a few things into the discussion I am not saying I beleive anything that I wrote.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just an FYI-
The pentagon does have detailed plans on what the initial response would be if aliens ever land on US soil. It was in an issue of Discover or Scientific American a while back.

Basically, if some sort of ship touches down the immediate area is evacuated. Juristicion goes to the FBI and the Nuclear Incident Response Team. Any beings on the ship are immediatly taken into custody by the FBI, and the NIR Team takes possesion of the spacecraft.

[/ QUOTE ]

So the Pentagon watched "The Day the Earth Stood Still" and mimicked that plan? I feel much better now.

As an additional precaution, I made all members of my family memorize the phrase that will prevent Gort from destroying our planet in case the Pentagon's plan somehow fails. Klaatu Barata Nikto............

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

There are probably 100,000,000,000 galaxies, each containing an average of 100,000,000,000 stars. Yet a cathedral with three grains of sand in it is more densely packed than the universe.

I'll let others do the math.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just an FYI-
The pentagon does have detailed plans on what the initial response would be if aliens ever land on US soil. It was in an issue of Discover or Scientific American a while back.

Basically, if some sort of ship touches down the immediate area is evacuated. Juristicion goes to the FBI and the Nuclear Incident Response Team. Any beings on the ship are immediatly taken into custody by the FBI, and the NIR Team takes possesion of the spacecraft.

[/ QUOTE ]

So the Pentagon watched "The Day the Earth Stood Still" and mimicked that plan? I feel much better now.

As an additional precaution, I made all members of my family memorize the phrase that will prevent Gort from destroying our planet in case the Pentagon's plan somehow fails. Klaatu Barata Nikto............

[/ QUOTE ]

ahahaahah

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't seem almost equally unlikely that no form of intelligent life has ever formed on another planet?

Let's define "intelligence" as chimp-smart, just for laughs.

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole problem with any question like this is insufficient sample size (one is a pretty small sample) but, currently on earth, we have several species approximately chimp-smart. I would put the other great apes (gorillas, bonobos, orngutans) as roughly chimp smart, and elephants dolphins and whales are in approximately that range, too. OTOH, it appears that life developed (or migrated) to earth pretty quickly after conditins became suitable, but it took four or five billion years to evolve a technological species, assuming that there wasn't an intelligent donosaur or something of which all traces have vanished. It seems that life might be pretty common, but intelligence sufficient for interstellar travel (which we haven't achieved yet, and maybe never will), or for that matter even industrial technology and radio communication, might be quite rare.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just an FYI-
The pentagon does have detailed plans on what the initial response would be if aliens ever land on US soil. It was in an issue of Discover or Scientific American a while back.

Basically, if some sort of ship touches down the immediate area is evacuated. Juristicion goes to the FBI and the Nuclear Incident Response Team. Any beings on the ship are immediatly taken into custody by the FBI, and the NIR Team takes possesion of the spacecraft.

[/ QUOTE ]

So basically, no one would ever hear about it, and any "witness" would either silenced or made out to be some crazyman. Hmmmmmm

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just an FYI-
The pentagon does have detailed plans on what the initial response would be if aliens ever land on US soil. It was in an issue of Discover or Scientific American a while back.

Basically, if some sort of ship touches down the immediate area is evacuated. Juristicion goes to the FBI and the Nuclear Incident Response Team. Any beings on the ship are immediatly taken into custody by the FBI, and the NIR Team takes possesion of the spacecraft.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope this is wrong. If it is true, our first response to any visit by extraterrestrial intelligence would be an act of war. If this is correct, we have some incredibly stupid people in the military. Not that that's exactly a shock. If the aliens do visit, we'd better hope that it's a lone scout ship and that there's not a mother ship lurking nearby with the kind of weapons that a civilization capable of interstellar travel is likely to be able to produce.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just an FYI-
The pentagon does have detailed plans on what the initial response would be if aliens ever land on US soil. It was in an issue of Discover or Scientific American a while back.

Basically, if some sort of ship touches down the immediate area is evacuated. Juristicion goes to the FBI and the Nuclear Incident Response Team. Any beings on the ship are immediatly taken into custody by the FBI, and the NIR Team takes possesion of the spacecraft.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for the skepticism, but you're saying the pentagon would give juristicion to the [censored] FBI? NFW the military brass is buying into that one.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just an FYI-
The pentagon does have detailed plans on what the initial response would be if aliens ever land on US soil. It was in an issue of Discover or Scientific American a while back.

Basically, if some sort of ship touches down the immediate area is evacuated. Juristicion goes to the FBI and the Nuclear Incident Response Team. Any beings on the ship are immediatly taken into custody by the FBI, and the NIR Team takes possesion of the spacecraft.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope this is wrong. If it is true, our first response to any visit by extraterrestrial intelligence would be an act of war. If this is correct, we have some incredibly stupid people in the military. Not that that's exactly a shock. If the aliens do visit, we'd better hope that it's a lone scout ship and that there's not a mother ship lurking nearby with the kind of weapons that a civilization capable of interstellar travel is likely to be able to produce.

[/ QUOTE ]

id be willing to bet that even one alien scout ship could bring down the entirely military of planet earth.

Think about what would happen if you took a M1A1 tank back even only a couple hundred years and used that bitch in the revultionary war or something. I can see the difference between alien technology and our current military being even greater than that

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just an FYI-
The pentagon does have detailed plans on what the initial response would be if aliens ever land on US soil. It was in an issue of Discover or Scientific American a while back.

Basically, if some sort of ship touches down the immediate area is evacuated. Juristicion goes to the FBI and the Nuclear Incident Response Team. Any beings on the ship are immediatly taken into custody by the FBI, and the NIR Team takes possesion of the spacecraft.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suppose this is marginally better than releasing a dove.

ScottieK

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

Of course they have been here before. Who do you htink built the pyramids?

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Of course they have been here before. Who do you think killed the dinosaurs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
To everyone who hasn't seen Cosmos,

it's a brilliant mini series from Carl Sagan done 25 some odd years ago. I recommend seeing all 13 episodes, but there is one in particular, "Encyclopedia Galactica" I believe, that deals with this subject. Even today, it's extremely informative and a great watch. This episode even goes into the probability theories.

Check it out,
Ross

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I loved these shows when I was a kid.

The key variable in that probability, the assumption that makes all the difference, was "how long would a civilization last after it developed the capacity to destroy itself?"

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

Project Serpo

Not only have they visited, we did an exchange program with them.

(jk, but this is good reading if you like sf.... physics don't work right on Serpo, oh well.... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, the conditions for life to exist are extremely rare. Life as we know it is extremely fragile and it appears, based on probabilistic arguments, that the conditions for life to exist are not that common in the universe. Microbes quite likely exist in abundance but complex life not. This argument was first set forth in the book Rare Earth: Why Complex Life is Uncommon in the Universe by Peter Ward, Donald Brownlee.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have not read this book but I am aware of the argument. The problem is we really do only have a sample size of one for a lot of the assumptions being made. Many of the conditions for complex life they consider unlikely may not be so unlikely at all, and many of the conditions for complex life they consider necessary may not be so necessary at all.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

Also it's possible the speed of light has been reached By another being. Yes I understand very well E=MC2 thank you. However the fact remains there could possibly be a being that would be able to trancend this limitation [ Mass increasing as speed increases for all wondering why we can't reach it], either via force field or some other "alien" method.

Just because we can't doesnt mean they can't.

If they were able to do this theres a good chance that they'd have an undectable stealth tech as well.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

Even if you didn't like Men In Black, just look around...they're everywhere man.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

But how would they find us?

If complex life is common enough for highly advanced civilizations to be nearby, there would be many more planets with civilizations not as advanced, such as our own, also nearby. Many of these will be closer to them than we are.

If not, well, our own radio transmissions haven't gotten far enough from Earth yet to be received by anyone advanced enough to reach us. We've only been transmitting for less than a century, and 100 light years is not very far - 0.1% of the diameter of our galaxy.

Either way, finding us is like finding the proverbial a needle in a haystack. The only question is, are we one of many needles in a small haystack, or one of a few in a very big one.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

murchinson meteorite

chiral proteins

CO2 cycle on mars. indicates life

Posted a million times.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...fe_050216.html

Not going to explain more. DOne it million times.

Oh, jason_t = full of [censored].

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
murchinson meteorite

chiral proteins

CO2 cycle on mars. indicates life

Posted a million times.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...fe_050216.html

Not going to explain more. DOne it million times.

Oh, jason_t = full of [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi, we're talking about complex, intelligent life here. Good luck.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, we're talking about complex, intelligent life here. Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi, universe is gigantor and we've likely got life on 2 planets in this solar system and some people think more.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are probably 100,000,000,000 galaxies, each containing an average of 100,000,000,000 stars. Yet a cathedral with three grains of sand in it is more densely packed than the universe.

I'll let others do the math.

[/ QUOTE ]

* For 1,000,000 civilizations in the galaxy
o the average distance between them will be ~ 150 ly!!!
o two-way communication will take at least 300 years!
* If the lifetime of a technical civilization is less than 3000 years
o Average distance is so large that civilizations will die, on average, before two-way communications can be established!

http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/cou...o101/lec35.htm

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]


Hi, universe is gigantor

[/ QUOTE ]

Gigaaaaaannnnttoooooorrrrrr

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi, we're talking about complex, intelligent life here. Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi, universe is gigantor and we've likely got life on 2 planets in this solar system and some people think more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi, and evolution needs to happen just so for complex life forms to develop. It's a parlay, and a pretty crazy one.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

For all we know it could always happen given the right conditions.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
For all we know it could always happen given the right conditions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Evolution is random.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For all we know it could always happen given the right conditions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Evolution is random.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mutations are random, yes, but if you do something randomly for a long enough time, you eventually cover a lot of the possibilities.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For all we know it could always happen given the right conditions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Evolution is random.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mutations are random, yes, but if you do something randomly for a long enough time, you eventually cover a lot of the possibilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not when the search space is as large as it is. There is an insane number of DNA combinations. Most of them are junk. Hitting upon ones that lead to complex life is rare.

Re: Have aliens visited earth?
 

Evolution is not random, it is precisely guided by the environment. Mutation is what is random.