Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

that run that maradona made was just sublime. He made Bryan Robson look like a fool, and bryan robson was no fool(though oft injured). When people talk about great goals, they seem to forget that one, though the Van Basten goal against the USSR in euro 88 is porbably the best that i have ever seen. I can still close my eyes and picture that goal to a tee

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont disagree about Messi's talent but it's alot to ask of a 20 year old. Messi's best World Cups are probably still ahead of him.

Remember Maradona in '82 young extraordinary talent but boy was he given a hot welcome to the big time.

He went to Mexico 4 years later and single handedly one the cup on his own.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really think that Messi will show what he has in june. How he has played for Barca in the champions league and, now that he has an EU passport, in La Liga has been just amazing. I have always raved about Rooney, but IMO, Messi could be better. What I have seen of Messi just leaves me a gast, and the fact is, he may end up being the best Barca Striker since Cruyff or Kubala. In some ways I am surpised that he didn't end up playing for Spain since he has lived there for the last 7 years



[ QUOTE ]
Let me give all you Americans some insight.

Your World Cup fate rests heavily on one thing, which Italy show up to play you.

Italy are the most frustrating team in world football.

In '02 they started there campaign with an almost effortless 2 - 0 win over Ecuador, from there it just went off the rails.

At Euro '04 anyone who watched that tournament entire will know that Italy produced the best 45 minutes in the first half against Sweden of any team in any game throughout the tournament. But they didn't make it pasted the group stage.

They are a Jekyll and Hyde and we'll have to wait and see who you get


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree fully. In some ways the same goes for the Czechs. IMO, Italy has always been one of the most overrated squads in world football, and they have only won 1 WC post WWII, and that was due to them having some of the greates Italians either hanging on(Zoff) or at their peak(Berzot). THe fact is, the US has good defenders and a great goalkeeper, so if they are willing to play ugly and let Beasley feed Eddie Johnson, it is possible for us to draw or beat Italy. TO be honest, Luca Toni is the main Striker that I think that the US has to worry about, as I'm not sure if Lippi will give Gilardino enough PT to be as effective as he can be. Italy keeps on wanting to rely on Pippo, Vieri(who is past his prime), and Del Peiro for whatever reason

I have heard that Nedved might be playing, so that will change things. Nedved is the only player that I think the US can't handle(and I do watch a ton of European football, so I'm not some US apologist as I'm more of an England fan to be honest). No US player has come across someone like Nedved at all, and he can change a game in a split second with his vision. I really don't think that Baros and Koller are all that special. Look at Baros, Liverpool sold him to Aston Villa, and he hasn't been all that much for a mid-table squad in the prem, and Koller is just tall, he is very uncoordinated. I've been able to watch him in the Bundesliga here because of Fox Sports World/Soccer channel.


RRRRICK, I do hope though that Australia does well, I have Aussie blood in me as my dad was from melbourne. I normally support the wallabies when I'm watching Rugby

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
If Korea/Japan taught us anything its make predictions at your own peril.

Some of the seeds will probably fall at the first hurdle and some teams will surprise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hence, my prediction that Togo will advance to the Second Round out of France's group.

[ QUOTE ]
Statements like Ghana going winless and Ivory Coast is the weakest team in group C all sound fair and well but don't be surprised when these teams force you to eat those words.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kindly point out to me where in my post I said that Ghana was going winless. Perhaps in future you would care to actually -read- my posts before you criticize them.

And the reason I said that Ivory Coast is the weakest team in Group C is because, well, they are. I also said they were the most talented of the African teams. They're just not in Argentina, Holland or Serbia's class (the last one is a little more debatable, perhaps), and I don't think you'd find too many fans of the sport who'd disagree with me on that one.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand the trophy to Brazil now.

It's actually embarrising the amount of excellence they have in this team.

This is the best Brazilian team since '82(I know they didn't win in '82, my point is its there's to lose and not someone elses to win) and in Ronaldinihio they have what I believe to be the best player I've seen since Maradona, he is very capable of doing what Diego did in '86.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they were playing a league format where they played every other team twice....yes, I'd agree, hand it to them now. The best team tends to always win that format. In a 3-game group followed by straight knockout format....different story. All they have to do is not show up once, get held to a draw in a knockout game and lose the penalty lottery, and they're done. England and France, just to name two, certainly are capable of beating an off-form Brazil in a one-off game.

--Scott

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We'll pwn Italy. 7 points for the US. Book it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not gonna happen [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you suggesting we'll get 9 points? I'm not sure I agree, but I like your spirit!

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish.

I know you love these, so:

I think they'll finish with 4 pts. Let's make the Over/Under @ 5.5 pts, I'll take the under.

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

Since the actual o/u will likely be exactly 4, I think I'll pass. Go find another sucker.

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since the actual o/u will likely be exactly 4, I think I'll pass. Go find another sucker.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since the actual o/u will likely be exactly 4, I think I'll pass. Go find another sucker.

[/ QUOTE ]

O/U of 4 on points the USA scores in their group?!!?!?!

OMG FREE MONEY THE USA WILL SCORE 9!!!!!!!

I need to liquidate myself before the 2006 World Cup, find backers, take out as many loans as posible, and pretty much just raise as much cash as necessary and bet it all on the over. Then I retire. HAHAHAHAHA SUCKERS!!!

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If Korea/Japan taught us anything its make predictions at your own peril.

Some of the seeds will probably fall at the first hurdle and some teams will surprise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hence, my prediction that Togo will advance to the Second Round out of France's group.

[ QUOTE ]
Statements like Ghana going winless and Ivory Coast is the weakest team in group C all sound fair and well but don't be surprised when these teams force you to eat those words.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kindly point out to me where in my post I said that Ghana was going winless. Perhaps in future you would care to actually -read- my posts before you criticize them.

And the reason I said that Ivory Coast is the weakest team in Group C is because, well, they are. I also said they were the most talented of the African teams. They're just not in Argentina, Holland or Serbia's class (the last one is a little more debatable, perhaps), and I don't think you'd find too many fans of the sport who'd disagree with me on that one.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand the trophy to Brazil now.

It's actually embarrising the amount of excellence they have in this team.

This is the best Brazilian team since '82(I know they didn't win in '82, my point is its there's to lose and not someone elses to win) and in Ronaldinihio they have what I believe to be the best player I've seen since Maradona, he is very capable of doing what Diego did in '86.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they were playing a league format where they played every other team twice....yes, I'd agree, hand it to them now. The best team tends to always win that format. In a 3-game group followed by straight knockout format....different story. All they have to do is not show up once, get held to a draw in a knockout game and lose the penalty lottery, and they're done. England and France, just to name two, certainly are capable of beating an off-form Brazil in a one-off game.

--Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

I read your post and all replies and the Ghana comment was in one of the replies so dont get your jox in a tangle.

The reason I made the Brazil comment is because I was making a bold prediction. If Brazil play to form for 7 matches there's no team that can hold them.

If anyone's going to hold them its more likely to be Italy then France or England. France and England will play Brazil on there merits and contest midfield and will get outclassed. Italy are the only team that would have anychance of holding Brazil to nil.

As for the Ivory Coast you may have said the same about Senegal and France in Korea/Japan.

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
that run that maradona made was just sublime. He made Bryan Robson look like a fool, and bryan robson was no fool(though oft injured). When people talk about great goals, they seem to forget that one, though the Van Basten goal against the USSR in euro 88 is porbably the best that i have ever seen. I can still close my eyes and picture that goal to a tee

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me I haven't forgoten that cracker. There's just something about a man taking the ball in his own half and bamboozling two thirds of his opposition and looking like a gazelle in the process.

What I love most about that goal was his first three touches.

Three English players around him and in an instant leaves them all staring at eachother....brilliant

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont disagree about Messi's talent but it's alot to ask of a 20 year old. Messi's best World Cups are probably still ahead of him.

Remember Maradona in '82 young extraordinary talent but boy was he given a hot welcome to the big time.

He went to Mexico 4 years later and single handedly one the cup on his own.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really think that Messi will show what he has in june. How he has played for Barca in the champions league and, now that he has an EU passport, in La Liga has been just amazing. I have always raved about Rooney, but IMO, Messi could be better. What I have seen of Messi just leaves me a gast, and the fact is, he may end up being the best Barca Striker since Cruyff or Kubala. In some ways I am surpised that he didn't end up playing for Spain since he has lived there for the last 7 years



[ QUOTE ]
Let me give all you Americans some insight.

Your World Cup fate rests heavily on one thing, which Italy show up to play you.

Italy are the most frustrating team in world football.

In '02 they started there campaign with an almost effortless 2 - 0 win over Ecuador, from there it just went off the rails.

At Euro '04 anyone who watched that tournament entire will know that Italy produced the best 45 minutes in the first half against Sweden of any team in any game throughout the tournament. But they didn't make it pasted the group stage.

They are a Jekyll and Hyde and we'll have to wait and see who you get


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree fully. In some ways the same goes for the Czechs. IMO, Italy has always been one of the most overrated squads in world football, and they have only won 1 WC post WWII, and that was due to them having some of the greates Italians either hanging on(Zoff) or at their peak(Berzot). THe fact is, the US has good defenders and a great goalkeeper, so if they are willing to play ugly and let Beasley feed Eddie Johnson, it is possible for us to draw or beat Italy. TO be honest, Luca Toni is the main Striker that I think that the US has to worry about, as I'm not sure if Lippi will give Gilardino enough PT to be as effective as he can be. Italy keeps on wanting to rely on Pippo, Vieri(who is past his prime), and Del Peiro for whatever reason

I have heard that Nedved might be playing, so that will change things. Nedved is the only player that I think the US can't handle(and I do watch a ton of European football, so I'm not some US apologist as I'm more of an England fan to be honest). No US player has come across someone like Nedved at all, and he can change a game in a split second with his vision. I really don't think that Baros and Koller are all that special. Look at Baros, Liverpool sold him to Aston Villa, and he hasn't been all that much for a mid-table squad in the prem, and Koller is just tall, he is very uncoordinated. I've been able to watch him in the Bundesliga here because of Fox Sports World/Soccer channel.


RRRRICK, I do hope though that Australia does well, I have Aussie blood in me as my dad was from melbourne. I normally support the wallabies when I'm watching Rugby

[/ QUOTE ]


I've got my doubts on the Czechs, is Nedved as good as he was when he won European Footballer of the year, probably not. Is he still world class, yes.

His last 12 months have been stop start with injuries, it all depends on where he is at come June.

You saw at Euro 04 the czechs were easily the best team there and as soon as the Greeks kicked Nedved out of the game they came back to there level.

They have good players around him but he pulls it all together and without a fully firing Nedved there just another eastern european team. Where have Romania been since Hagi and Bulgaria since Stoichkov...nowhere, same deal here.

Let me explain something about Italy coming from someone with Italian heritage who watched the '82 World Cup as an 8 year old. The're squad is not overrated, they produce some of the most technically talented, balanced, skilled players in the game. It's there mentality that has held them back for so long.

Get some footage of Italy at the 90 WC and tell me the last time you've seen a team play real one touch football like that, it was so beautiful to watch. And what happened to them?, they breezed to the semis and came up against an Argentina which had stumbled through. Vicini succombed to the pressure and reverted to a more defensive game with the emphasis on not losing rather than winning. That statement there somes up Italy they play not to lose, but they have the talent to play attacking football. Whats the point of producing talent like Baggio, Baresi, Maldini, Donadoni and not encouraging them to attack.

The reason I sighted 90 was that Vicini was the only manager that had the vision to create an attacking Italy but even he become the scarred snail when it mattered most the semi final. They conceded one goal in 6 matches from open play in that tournament. Im not saying they would have definately won the tournament as that was the best German team of all time but what a final we were denied. The German players themselves state that they felt a little robbed at the fact that they didn't get the chance to play the Italians in the final as they were clearly the 2 best teams.

In 94 Baggio almost won it single handed and he did it by going against Sacchi's wishes.

As for Australia, mate we've already won. What a night Nov 16 was, the entire nation riding every bump tackle and shot.

The shootout was just unbearable, but the euphoria when the net shook after Aloisi's take.. I will never forget it.

As long as we dont get humiliated which Im sure we wont we'll be thrilled. We are so happy to be there after so many near misses.

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

and they have only won 1 WC post WWII, and that was due to them having some of the greates Italians either hanging on(Zoff) or at their peak(Berzot).

Italy drew there first three matches in 82 against Peru, Poland and Cameroon scoring one goal in the process.

In a unique system only ever used in 82 the drew Brazil and Argentina in the second three team round robin stage.

After beating Argentina 2 - 1 the best thing happen to Italy.
They went into the match against a phenomenal Brazilian team needing to win, a draw was not good enough. Berzot basically had no choice but to adopt a [censored] it lets attack them approach. With an inspired Paolo Rossi the greatest single 90 minutes in World Cup history was produced, what a game, the ascendency changed 5 times in 90 minutes. After that Poland and West Germany were formalities.

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

The US just annouced that they'll play a match at Germany on march 22. Also, according to ussoccer.com they have two more matches planned (one in US and one in europe) against unannounced opponents. Should be some good prep for their group.

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

Anyone here in Brazil can see how France can beat us, very unlikely, they don have a team for that. Media here is talking a lot about Italy, Netherlands, England and Argentina(but its not impossible they cant reach the 2 round).

Our manager is a world-class donkey, but even him cna win with that team.

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

Free money:

Fri 6/9 Will the USA reach the Round of 16?
527 Yes +234

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
Free money:

Fri 6/9 Will the USA reach the Round of 16?
527 Yes +234

[/ QUOTE ]


[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] WOW, THIS IS BETTER THAN THE O/U ON POINTS SCORED IN GROUP PLAY!!! 2.34:1 PAYOFF!!!! OMG I'M BETTING EVERYTHING I OWN!!!!! THANKS CLARK!!!

USA USA USA USA USA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

U just made a -EV bet.

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
U just made a +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++E V bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

What are the chances of USA having more points overall than Italy, please dont jump to conclusions answer this question first?

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
What are the chances of USA having more points overall than Italy, please dont jump to conclusions answer this question first?

[/ QUOTE ]


Feel free to lay -250 that the US doesn't make the round of 16. That's available also. Sucker.

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

You really don't think the US has at least a 29% chance of accumulting more points than either Italy or the Czeck Republic? Ghana isn't likely to effect much.

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

thats probably -ev as well.

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone here in Brazil can see how France can beat us, very unlikely, they don have a team for that. Media here is talking a lot about Italy, Netherlands, England and Argentina(but its not impossible they cant reach the 2 round).

Our manager is a world-class donkey, but even him cna win with that team.

[/ QUOTE ]


I could coach that team and win the world cup

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

I think this brazil debate wont make sense if we have <font color="black"> </font> coaching them.
if we want some intresting debate we have to ponder something like " how would brazil do if they started every game down by 2 goals"
Im guessing they would lose on the last 16.

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone here in Brazil can see how France can beat us, very unlikely, they don have a team for that. Media here is talking a lot about Italy, Netherlands, England and Argentina(but its not impossible they cant reach the 2 round).

Our manager is a world-class donkey, but even him cna win with that team.

[/ QUOTE ]


I could play goalkeeper and that team would win the world cup

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

ure scenario is somehow similar to mine....

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think this brazil debate wont make sense if we have <font color="black"> </font> coaching them.
if we want some intresting debate we have to ponder something like " how would brazil do if they started every game down by 2 goals"
Im guessing they would lose on the last 16.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its an unfair hypothetical if there is such a thing.

Teams could be ultra defensive against them knowing they start with a 2 goal lead.

I think a better question would be, what if Brazil play every game with 10 men?

Re: Thoughts on the World Cup Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this brazil debate wont make sense if we have <font color="black"> </font> coaching them.
if we want some intresting debate we have to ponder something like " how would brazil do if they started every game down by 2 goals"
Im guessing they would lose on the last 16.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its an unfair hypothetical if there is such a thing.

Teams could be ultra defensive against them knowing they start with a 2 goal lead.

I think a better question would be, what if Brazil play every game with 10 men?

[/ QUOTE ]

What if Brazil play every game with all 5 of their world class strikers in the lineup?