Re: Jerk of the Day
 

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I always show when somebody asks. I'm not upset that he asked to see another person's cards. I'm always upset when a person is an unprovoked jerk towards a person who has treated him with respect.


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I agree with this.

Many in this thread are taking the 'information' angle on it. Which I don't agree with.

b

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Everybody saying the rule is legal needs to read about and understand why the rules exists.

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Read about this where? Nobody really knows the origins or this rule. I would assume that it was invented just out of a philosophical notion that a "showdown" involves showing down all the hands, so you are entitled to see them all if you really want to. There are a lot of other popular theories, but I've never see any solid evidence for any of them being the true origin. The "collusion detection" mentioned in the thread is particularly silly since this rule doesn't even make sense to be used that way since if you are colluding to build the pot, you would just always have the guy without the real hand fold for the last bet and the rule then doesn't let you see his hand.

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However, if it's a pattern, someone could ask the floor to see the hand w/o showing the players.

b

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everybody saying the rule is legal needs to read about and understand why the rules exists.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, in all the cardrooms they should go up to the rules posted on the wall and see the 1 sentence describing it:

Any player at the table can ask to see a hand at showdown.

I mean, c'mon, you're expecting the average player that barely reads an article other than the fluff pieces in a magazine, if that, to go in depth to find out the alleged(see bobbyi's response) true spirit of the rule? pfffft. Think about it. You're really worried about this player?

As long as it isn't holding up the game, big deal.

b

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

I am not worried about the jackass asking to see the cards. I am worried that out of humiliation the donkeys will be afraid to go to showdown with garbage.

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

There are indeed two things wrong with asking to see cards. First of all it's dickish. And secondly it is indeed bad for the game.

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

I recommend reading this series of articles from Bob Ciaffone regarding the IWTSTH showdown rule. His observations were similar yet differed from the commonly held opinion here at 2+2, its the most insightful article on the subject that I have read so far.
Article

Although I generally agree with Bob, the villain that Andy experianced was a total ass.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

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First of all it's dickish. And secondly it is indeed bad for the game.

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I agree with this. In my opinion, "it's bad for the game" is a much more compelling argument for getting the rule changed than "the rule is only intended to stop collusion". I think people who want this rule eliminated would be more successful if they pushed the first argument and dropped the second which just confuses the issue.

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

Like Bernie told me once, "Always be prepared to show your hand."

If someone wants to see it, then so be it. It is not that big a deal. The people who win pots and want to see other people's hands usually think they are better than they are and are getting a "read" on how the other guy plays (unless they truly believe there may have been collusion). I have yet to see someone actually use the information in any sort of profitable way.

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

So what did the guy have?

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

Q-8. A-8 outkicked him.

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

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First player tells the dealer, "I want to see his hand."

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I think I've played against this guy! Is his name Arse McDick or is it Sphincter MacBlowhole? One of those two. All I know is he has to use a washroom stall to blow his nose.

It's not just the move is bad for the game, HE and everyone like him is bad for the game. Why don't these droolers want people to enjoy themselves and stay at the table?

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

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Q-8. A-8 outkicked him.

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I was just waiting for that.

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

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I have yet to see someone actually use the information in any sort of profitable way.

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If I was sitting at the table I would remember both hands and how they were played. Its not just the jerk who gets to see the hand. The whole table gets information.

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

Two players remaining in the pot. Board is 8-8-8-K-T. First player checks. Second player bets. First player check-raises. Second player calls.

First player shows A-8, quads. Second player shakes his head and mucks. First player tells the dealer, "I want to see his hand."


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Q-8. A-8 outkicked him.

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? That's a lot of eights.

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

"That's a lot of eights."

Exactly.

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

Good one Andy.

Years ago a super nit asked to see an opponent's hand in a three-way pot where he first made sure he discarded his own hand (a third player had won the pot). The other player was upset and threw his own hand into the muck.

I was working the floor (my first year) and was called to the table. The super nit wanted me to reprimand the other player. I told super nit that if he didn't understand why his opponent was upset, his vision didn't extend beyond his nose.

Was I out of line?

~ Rick

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

Did you really just make that comment?

We should meet sometime.

Sincerely,

Sacracsm

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

Hmm, I get lectured because some ahole puts his hand in my face.

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I have yet to see someone actually use the information in any sort of profitable way.

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If I was sitting at the table I would remember both hands and how they were played. Its not just the jerk who gets to see the hand. The whole table gets information.

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The greater majority of players at any table today aren't really going to use the information. Realize that you'd be the exception in most cases. Not to mention, many times the information really doesn't do anything to really tell you anything new about a player. Especially if he's a regular that you've played with quite a bit.

b

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

Until the IWTSTH rule is changed (and yes, I'm a very big supporter of voiding IWTSTH), I have learned the technique of the "super muck."

Muck fast, muck hard, muck well before any scumbag even thinks of asking to see your hand in a HU pot.

I can't remember the last time someone even tried this JA routine with me.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Jerk of the Day
 

Felicia,

I like that move to. Thats one of the reasons I always try to get the 3 or 4 seat, it's easiest from there.