Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

I don't think you are crazy, but I'm sure the claims of this book are overblown.

If this stuff happens, it will not happen as fast as the authors predict and by that time, mother nature will find another way to kill us off.

These predictions are almost always wrong. I remember reading an article about 12 years ago that said that in 10 years baldiness would be cured. I'm still waiting for that and for my flying car.

By all means take care of yourself to increase the quality of your life now and in your old age, that only makes sense.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

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Are you a Scientologist?

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I prefer to think of myself as a pediatric gynecologist.

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Two thumbs down.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
The 5,000 year quote was not said by the authors, nor did I defend the validity of that number. In fact, I referred to it as crazy in my blog.

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it looks like the books authors are either delusional, or they did chose to hype the [censored] out of some basic health advice to get 10 minutes of attention. im reading some other reviews on other sites and none of their advice is revolutionary or anything.

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You're saying it's off the wall bonkers, and then you go to say that none of the ideas in the book are revolutionary? Those criticisms can't coexist.

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no, thats obviously not what im saying. im saying their health advice doesnt look revolutionary, but their predictions about the future are bonkers. do you understand the distinction?

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
no, thats obviously not what im saying. im saying their health advice doesnt look revolutionary, but their predictions about the future are bonkers. do you understand the distinction?

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I completely agree with you V. These kind of books and philosophies pray on unstable, ignorant patronage (not saying ZJ is one of them, just that's there market). This stuff is just another morph of a billion crazy ass bastards from many years past.

I believe that most people that really put thought into it will say that they have absolutely no desire to live to...ummm...what was it...5000 years old?

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

you look too cool to be talking about eating healthy.

next time just say "live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse".

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Living past 120 years by just changing your diet *is* absurd. Living longer in general obviously isn't.

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I'm not sure where you got the number 120 from, but adding 20 years to your lifespan by living a healthier life is most certainly not absurd.

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That I would agree with. Yeah, I know, someone will post about their 90 year old grandfather who drank every day and smoked 2 packs of Chesterfields, but that is not the norm. The big problem is not just diet, but stress, and environment/water. These are things that we don't know the long term effects over yet.

But, by eating healthy you increase your chances of living longer. I don't even think that is debatable. But, there are a lot outside factors that are beyond our control. I also don't think "quantity" of life is the most important area to look at as well. By eating healthier, you will probably have a better quality life physically and mentally.

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

I guess it was a mistake to use the 5,000 year quote in my post. Again, I want to stress that quote is not from the authors. In my post, I did not write about any of their predictions. I wrote their intro to bridge 2 and bridge 3 ideas, but as I have already said, most of the stuff they write about these bridges is about technologies that already exist.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
These kind of books and philosophies pray on unstable, ignorant patronage

[/ QUOTE ]

Do some research on Ray Kurzweil. He developed the first print to speach reading machine for the blind, designed the Kurzweil keyboard, and had a great number of other contributions to the AI field that already exist.

His past books including the age of intelligent machines have made some bold predictions that have already come true.

You make it sound like this guy is running a paid programming add on comedy central at 4am.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

You are WAYYYY too bright of a kid for this stuff ZJ.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are WAYYYY too bright of a kid for this stuff ZJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand what I said that was so absurd.

I never said that the human life span will be 5,000 years, nor did I imply that the authors said it. And for the 192431209312th time, the word forever is not meant to be taken literally. It's a catchy title.

What specific concept is so absurd?

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are WAYYYY too bright of a kid for this stuff ZJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, WTF are you talking about? He is too bright to believe that our life expectency is going up and putting healthy things into your body is the foundation to living a longer life?

You sound like an idiot constantly disagreeing with something that you have not done any research on.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

Internet use policy restricts access to this web page.

Reason:
The Websense category "Gambling" is filtered.


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URL:
http://www.zeejustin.com/journal.php?journal_id=61

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

I guess the problem I have is is that's the living a very long time stuff is tosh (more kindly put: wild speculation).

It also caters specifically to the ignorant who might wanna live a long time, cos they're scared of dying. - It is therefore an exploitative work.

I have the same problem with diet boooks that claim to do this and that, but don't really deliver, because they offer programs that are short-term and not sustainable. (But good exercise and nutrition books are fine!)


Okay, diet, excercise and moderation do promote longer life generally, but selling a nutrition+ book which promises the possibility of living forever, as the title does whatever you may say, is snake oil.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
Live Long Enough to Live Forever

This is the first blog I've written with no poker content that I think can have a profound impact on some of the readers. I really hope some of you will take the suggestion and read the book in question.

Anyway, I'd love comments from people that think I'm crazy, or people that have read the book already.
-ZJ

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My personal theory is no matter how long someonee lives they will run into cancer or alzheimers eventually. You may live 5000 years but you will be a vegetable for the majority of it. Brains just arent built to work optimally for the long run.

If everyone did live 5000 years that means that there will significantly more births than deaths leading to an overpopulation leading to shortage in food etc. Most likely leading to an all out war(according to Malthus), look at what an oil shortage is doing today.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

Just discussing what I know, not what I do.

But, thank you for the compliment. I promise if I "look cool", it is only a look. I am actually a big dork.

craig

[ QUOTE ]
you look too cool to be talking about eating healthy.

next time just say "live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse".

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Living past 120 years by just changing your diet *is* absurd. Living longer in general obviously isn't.

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I'm not sure where you got the number 120 from, but adding 20 years to your lifespan by living a healthier life is most certainly not absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

That I would agree with. Yeah, I know, someone will post about their 90 year old grandfather who drank every day and smoked 2 packs of Chesterfields, but that is not the norm. The big problem is not just diet, but stress, and environment/water. These are things that we don't know the long term effects over yet.

But, by eating healthy you increase your chances of living longer. I don't even think that is debatable. But, there are a lot outside factors that are beyond our control. I also don't think "quantity" of life is the most important area to look at as well. By eating healthier, you will probably have a better quality life physically and mentally.

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

Diebitter, the title is misleading. I'll give you that, but I don't think I agree with any of your other points.

If you think this book is written to cater to the ignorant, you need to give the book a read and I think you will wholeheartily change your opinion. It's not exactly written on a 3rd grade reading level.

If you believe that the trend of life extension that has ocurred over the past 100 years, then you are the one making bold claims. To me this is just obvious, but I suppose it's up for debate.

I don't know what your point is about short-term unsustainable diets. This book recommends making lifestyle changes, and plainly discouarages short-term diets, especially for weight loss.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

The next world war will reduce the average life expectancy to mere minutes.

Personally, years ago I decided I'd rather die 2 years earlier than live the rest of my life eating like a Chinese peasant. And I like rice.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

I believe you actually. I realised my mistake once you pointed out Ray Kurzweil was coauthor. I have a research background in AI (but out of the field for the last 10), so that came as a bolt. I didn't register it first time I looked at the blog.

It really isn't my cup of tea, and as I sent the 'snake oil' thing, I got to thinking it might be an academic rather than populist work? or is it populist? If populist, I still would call 'snake oil' till I actually see it myself.

Anyway, I'm holding back the ragging - I was thrown by your tree-hugging '4th dimension phrase' early on (which I liked, but marked you as 'flake' in my head) - cos I could be wrong.

You and me are cool. Let's go bowling some time.

Goonga Galoonga

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
f you believe that the trend of life extension that has ocurred over the past 100 years, then you are the one making bold claims. To me this is just obvious, but I suppose it's up for debate.


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Life extensions for who? A lot of the world has an unbelievably low death age. And not from wars either. The cause can be from water problems, lack of food, too much concentration of wealth, etc... (I don't want to turn this into something political). But, there are diseases people are dying from now, even in the U.S., that could possibly be preventable. No one knows how bad pollution really is for us. But, it is not profitable to try to stop pollution (for example).

So, I do agree with you, that if you eat better, exercise, and relax (I don't know if you mentioned that) you will proably live longer and have a better quality of life. But, just by eating well, you don't guarantee anything, because so many other factors play into life expectancy. Also, if one major epidepic takes place, the average life expectancy can drop considerably. If we factor in the average lifespan of a male adult how much bigger are the numbers if we take into account only western countries as oppossed to western countries and africa?

craig

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

i think that people should have enough self respect that they dont get obesse.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

i would imagine that this is for 1st world countries specifically

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

I havent read the book, so I cant be to critical, but Im very "meh" about it just from the blurbs in your blog. I get annoyed when books of this nature try and make claims sound bigger than they are, especially when its obviously a good claim anyway. Like the whole "a centruy ago life expectancy was 40 years, and its almost doubled since then". uhm, no it wasnt. Life expectancy was over 50 a century ago and its only gone up a a little more than 50% since then, you can find that out easily on-line. Why stretch the truth to make it sound better, when the cocnept is still very real and worth mentioning (the fact that there has been a huge jump in the last century), just makes me call into question everything else they would have to say.

bottom line is still the same tho, nutrition is incredibly important. There have been tons of studies that show that a low calorie diet will add many years to your life. Thats well and good, but Ill take 10 years less to my life to be able to do the things I enjoy doing and make me feel alive, rather than sacrifice all that so I can be around this planet a little longer. I eat healthy and I exercise, and thats better than not, and thats good enough for me.

I do believe tho that some day sience will have a "cure" for death, and that barring some accident we will all have the potential to actually live for ever (I actually think its a no brainer that this will happen given that we keep progressing in sceince the way we are). The world will be an interesting place when that happens, as all sorts of interesting things come into play then. Ill be dead by then tho [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

I'm not obesse.
But I have gained more weight this year than and single year since I was 17. But how could you know that?

Are you stalking me?

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

Didn't read all the replies, but from what you wrote in your blog I gather it has some good diet advice. The changes you made to your lifestyle all look good, but are the kind of changes found in hundreds of diet books and magazines. As far as increasing life expectancy and living to 200-300, that is not going to happen. Medical technology is rapidly advancing, but breakthroughs that will allow for living this long may never come. The human body isn't meant to live that long, as one poster pointed out the average life expectantcy has increased, but maximum life span has only increased slightly. If this medical technology does come we will all be very old and unlikely to gain the real benefits from them, as our bodies will have already degraded extensively.

One thing that really stuck out was in your journal article you mentioned something like "many diseases are curable by basic vitamins, but pharmaceutical companies don't want you to know about them" (not an exact quote). This is utterly ridiculous and in the same league as accusing Part Poker of being rigged. The medical proffession does spend a large amount of time focusing on diet and nutrition (look at diabetes, crohn's disease just to name two that come to mind). The medical industry may focus a lot more on drugs and downplay nutrition but popping some vitamins is definitely not going to cure these or any other disease.

In summary it looks like a healthy living book with some sci-fi hooie put in for excitement. I haven't read it so I can't say for sure, but I think it grossly overestimates the effects of medical technology from what I have read on your journal article.

Re: The title of this post
 

ZeeJustin,

Have you seen the movie Highlander? Living forever has its downsides as well, largely emotional in nature.

There can only be one,
El Diablo

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

man this thread sux.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

Diablo,

What do you make of the fact that there were often 5 or 6?

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I always thought the main thing that limits our life expectancy is simply the fact that we breathe and live in an ogygen rich environment. Oxygen is fairly corrosive and causes our bodies to deteriorate at a faster rate than they would in other elements. I think I remember reading somewhere that if we breathed helium instead of oxyen, our average life expectancy would be about 250 years.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

Shajen,

There can only be one in the end. They start out with a lot and fight until there is only one, who gets The Prize.

Have a good lunch,
El Diablo

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I remember reading somewhere that if we breathed helium instead of oxyen, our average life expectancy would be about 250 years.

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And we would sound like chipmunks when talking.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

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I think I remember reading somewhere that if we breathed helium instead of oxyen, our average life expectancy would be about 250 years.

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And we would sound like chipmunks when talking.

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plus there's no way a biology could have evolved or even started that could be based on an inert gas. Or maybe I'm being Mr Picky.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

For insight into extended lifespan read some of the articles written by Cynthia Kenyon LINK

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
Frankly, believing any of this tosh is a waste of the 4th dimension. And it's place on your bookshelf is a waste of the other three.

IMHO.

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Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about. Eating healthy is a smart move, and making a big effort to do so is admirable esp given how much effort it takes under current American conditions. As for the secondary point of the book, the curing of aging (senescence actually, but aging's become the commonly used term) is something that is very doable and very possibly within our generation's grasp. Do some reading on senescence, what it truly is biologically, how there's a lack of it in some species already in our ecosystem, and then go do some reading on current research aimed at reaching such a state in the human species (Methuselah Mouse is the most public and a good place to start). This would be a good start although the very near possibilities extend much further, for as ZJ pointed out nano-tech and other bio or AI technology could possibly give us the ability to go far, far beyond what a natural lack of senescence would acccomplish. If you don't want to read up on any of that that's fine, but if you are going to be ignorant re: the subject then don't be so pompous as to tell others these things are "a waste".

GoT

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Frankly, believing any of this tosh is a waste of the 4th dimension. And it's place on your bookshelf is a waste of the other three.

IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]
Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about....

If you don't want to read up on any of that that's fine, but if you are going to be ignorant re: the subject then don't be so pompous as to tell others these things are "a waste".

GoT

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Fair enough. I read the first part of the blog, and then saw the OP's comment 'You have to think in the 4th dimension!' - which raised a 'flake' alert.

However, if you'd have read a bit of the discussion, you'd have noticed I had no problem with good nutrition, but it was the rest that I found whacky - and if the book's for popular consumption, it's pretty much a selling angle AFAIC. I also later acknowledged I could be wrong here. Fair enough?

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
One thing that really stuck out was in your journal article you mentioned something like "many diseases are curable by basic vitamins, but pharmaceutical companies don't want you to know about them" (not an exact quote). This is utterly ridiculous and in the same league as accusing Part Poker of being rigged

[/ QUOTE ]

I said preventable, not curable.

Re: The title of this post
 

[ QUOTE ]
ZeeJustin,

Have you seen the movie Highlander? Living forever has its downsides as well, largely emotional in nature.

There can only be one,
El Diablo

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been a while since I've seen that movie, but they could always just cut their heads off if they didn't want to live anymore, right?

Suicide should always be an option.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
The human body isn't meant to live that long,

[/ QUOTE ]

You could argue that our bodies won't be 100% human anymore. We already have prosthetic limbs. Prosthetic organs aren't that far off.

Also, we will be able to altar our own DNA and how it is carried out. We have already done this in other animals, and have significant impacts on them including altering worms and mice to live the equivelent of almost 200 human years. Eventually we'll be able to use this technology on humans.

It sounds like aging is the process that you can't get past. Aging is a process that occurs in our cells as a result of our human DNA code. We are already able to altar our own DNA, although it will be decades before we perfect this science, but when we can, some serious [censored] will happen.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
One thing that really stuck out was in your journal article you mentioned something like "many diseases are curable by basic vitamins, but pharmaceutical companies don't want you to know about them" (not an exact quote). This is utterly ridiculous and in the same league as accusing Part Poker of being rigged


[/ QUOTE ]

Why is this not believable. The pharmaceutical industry is humongous. There are natural things one can take that will get rid of certain ailments just as good and possibly safer than a prescription medicine. Even things for emotional problems sometimes work better and are not as addictive. Kava Kava is much safer and less addictive than Benzos and works almost as well. I am not saying that there are "herbal" or vitamin remedies for everything that prescription drugs offer, but it is in the pharmacies best interest to push its own product, rather than a cheaper and safer substitute when one is available. People with mild Bipolar Disorder II are told to try flax seed oil (has a very large concentration of Omega 3's) before trying prescription mood stablizers. And it is successful in some cases. And it is definitely much safer.

I just think it is naive to think that a business would not want you to know about its competitors. The pharmaceutical industry is no different than most other industries; it is designed to make a profit.

craig

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]

There are natural things one can take that will get rid of certain ailments just as good and possibly safer than a prescription medicine.

[/ QUOTE ]

This definitely isnt the norm

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People with mild Bipolar Disorder II are told to try flax seed oil (has a very large concentration of Omega 3's) before trying prescription mood stablizers.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh, looks like the drug companies arent stopping the spread of information after all. Which is important to note, drug companies arent the one prescribing you the drugs, they cant prescrive you drugs.

you are right, its in their best interest for everyone to not take vitamins and all get sick, but the system is set up as such that thats not really how it works. This is just a giant conspiracy theory that has no merit, but gets tossed around cuz everyone loves conspiracy theories

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

There are natural things one can take that will get rid of certain ailments just as good and possibly safer than a prescription medicine.

[/ QUOTE ]

This definitely isnt the norm

[ QUOTE ]

People with mild Bipolar Disorder II are told to try flax seed oil (has a very large concentration of Omega 3's) before trying prescription mood stablizers.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh, looks like the drug companies arent stopping the spread of information after all. Which is important to note, drug companies arent the one prescribing you the drugs, they cant prescrive you drugs.

you are right, its in their best interest for everyone to not take vitamins and all get sick, but the system is set up as such that thats not really how it works. This is just a giant conspiracy theory that has no merit, but gets tossed around cuz everyone loves conspiracy theories

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not saying it is a "conspiracy". Is it a conspiracy that drug companies visit doctors and tell them the benefits of their drug in order for them to push it? Drug companies meet with private practices all the time. They leave free samples. Why would they do this?

I don't just think it is the drug companies that are responsible for the "pushing", but the doctors as well. There are doctors that will try other treatments before prescribing medicine. These Dr's are rare, but they do exist. I have very bad anxiety attacks. I have only had one doctor not give me a benzo for them. Xanex is great, but the rebound affect is horrible. Plus, it is highly addictive and one builds tolerance very quickly. This doctor told me to at least "fast walk" 30 minutes a day, take Kava Kava if necessary, and taught me simple breathing exercises. Did it work as well as Xanex? No. But, it helped and put me in charge instead of a highly addictive drug that causes worse stress once it wears off. It didn't need to work as well either. I don't feel this is a conspiracy, I just think the market is setup for quick fixes without thinking of possible long and short term side effects. Plus, Xanex works quickly and dependence doesn't take very long to develop.

Obviously this is just one example and I have already stated that there isn't a herbal remedy for every disease. But, to call it a conspiracy is silly. The pharmaceutical industry wants you to buy their products. They want you to think that it is the only solution, but it isn't always the only solution or the best one.

craig

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever
 

[ QUOTE ]
Shajen,

There can only be one in the end. They start out with a lot and fight until there is only one, who gets The Prize.

Have a good lunch,
El Diablo

[/ QUOTE ]
But in the t.v. show, the Highlander guy trains the annoying sidekick to also be immortal (actually, I think he just says, "Okay, you're immortal now, too." and THEN starts training him.) So couldn't they just keep adding more and more people? That part really confused me.