Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

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Perhaps you are one of those scientologist who has paid the requisite 300K+ to reach the top level and can answer a question for me. Did Xenu really die once and for all? Or is he like Sauron, merely gathering his strength to reassume physical form and once again become the evil galactic ruler?

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A religion based on Lord of the Rings is no less absurd than one based on the bible. They're both old moralistic books with a cult following that have been made into long pointless films. But at least LOTR has hot elf chicks.

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Very good point.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

I have just learned about Pascal's Wager. Upon reading the summary of it on Wikipedia it struck me as a very powerful argument. Reading on to the criticisms of it I was soon made aware of the assumptions which you must make in order for it to make sense. I don't think it's a very strong argument at all now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascals...scal.27s_wager

Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

I said in the preamble to my OP here that I wouldn't rehash the wager since we have already discussed it plenty in other threads, and stated that there are valid, but not to the point of being invalidating, criticisms of the manner in which it is formulated.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

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I said in the preamble to my OP here that I wouldn't rehash the wager since we have already discussed it plenty in other threads, and stated that there are valid, but not to the point of being invalidating, criticisms of the manner in which it is formulated.

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Why don't you post some responses to these criticisms? After all, those are the really interesting questions. Your OP really is just a rehash of the wager.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

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The effects of this Church teaching I have to assume is immaterial. Do you really think folk in the starving States are not using condoms because of the Church’s teachings?

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YES!!! Wow, those two statements just blew me away.

It's late now (3am here in Oz) but I'll get back to this tomorrow. But there is much on the web about this, this is a huge issue. There are Catholic groups themselves taking up this fight because of the extreme harm it's causing. No I'm not exaggerating.

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Sorry Little Prince, but I googled and found no evidence that the Church’s teaching is even being listened to let alone causing damage. I found many stories discussion the Church’s teaching. That is another issue in and of itself. That is whether or not it is and/or how it can/can’t help/harm the situation. (How about that sentence!)

You are going have to provide me with a few links.

RJT

p.s. I hope you have something better than a few Catholic groups themselves. Lay groups aren't known to have it together that much, imo. Most seem to have way too much time on their hands.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

Hello RJT,

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I googled and found no evidence that the Church’s teaching is even being listened to let alone causing damage.

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This link gives plenty of references that suggest that there is a link between religiosity and sexual behaviour.

In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous democracies.

Here is the full paper from the above quote.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

MG,

I read that before. (That paper,imo, say not much.)

We are talking about a specific notion though. I am interested if I simply have not heard of this issue or if there really is not issue.

Thanks for the reply though,

RJT

Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

Hiya RJT,

The first link I gave is a compendium of references, many which show a negative correlation between religion and sexual safe behaviours.

I find the (second link) paper an excellent observation, but then, it confirms what are my views, independently arrived at. I think it may even have been posted on this forum before, or maybe just quoted. Never mind worth bumping it up again in the name of truth. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

Got it. I only clicked the second link. I'll take a gander at the first one now. I thought the second was a full text of the first.

Thanks.

RJT

Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

MG,

Took a quick look. Nope. We are looking for articles that says the Catholic Church’s teaching in 3rd world countries exacerbating the spread of HIV. That is Phil’s position. He is pretty reliable, so I am concerned that it is an issue that I have yet to hear of. I think he might be mistaken here though (chez had a misread today - might be a full moon or something). We’ll see.

RJT

Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

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A religion based on Lord of the Rings is no less absurd than one based on the bible. They're both old moralistic books with a cult following that have been made into long pointless films. But at least LOTR has hot elf chicks.

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This is why 2+2 = the pwn.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

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MG,

Took a quick look. Nope. We are looking for articles that says the Catholic Church’s teaching in 3rd world countries exacerbating the spread of HIV. That is Phil’s position. He is pretty reliable, so I am concerned that it is an issue that I have yet to hear of. I think he might be mistaken here though (chez had a misread today - might be a full moon or something). We’ll see.

RJT

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I remember someone on the boards made the asinine assertion last spring after JPII's death that he was responsible for millions of AIDS cases in Africa because he wouldn't endorse condom use. This contention is laughable. People like this conveniently forget that if everyone in Africa followed Church teaching completely, that AIDS would not exist. This apparently must be the mentality of the average tribesman: "OK, I'm going to sleep with ten women this week in my villiage, but I better not use a condom because the Church considers it a sin." If said villiager follows Church teachings completely, he is not sleeping with anyone until he is married, and after that marriage, only with his wife. Complete compliance with Church teaching=no AIDS. Unfortunately, Church critics must conjure unrealistic scenerios where African men follow some Church teachings while dismissing the rest to explain the AIDS epidemic.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets
 

Hiya bigdaddydvo,

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if everyone in Africa followed Church teaching completely, that AIDS would not exist

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Correct indeed. I could not disagree with that. Unfortunately even the catholics recognise that humans are not perfect however well intentionned. So, if with their good intention, they find themselves in situation of temptation unprepared they are now at an increased risk, the consequences of wich will not dissapear with the sacrement of reconciliation, altough it may be forgiven. The reality is that the church has to bear some responsibility for an increase in AIDS cases. The other portion of responsibility should be the inmperfect human, that inperfect creation of an inperfect god. That's the only way I can relate it to a god concept. And the third portion should be the absolutely brilliantly intelligent designer of the aids virus and the immune system.