Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

There have been bots on Party after Saabpo. I got four accounts closed by reporting them some while ago.

Now I haven't played enough against juicy to have any opinion on the shadyness of his play. The sheer volume needed to be played to end up first in the leaderboard is odd of course.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]
I got four accounts closed by reporting them some while ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just exactly what do you use as your tell tale sign of boticity?

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I got four accounts closed by reporting them some while ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just exactly what do you use as your tell tale sign of boticity?

[/ QUOTE ]

Same locaction, same time for each action, only push/fold from level one, playing pretty much 24h/day from what I could tell. Pretty amateurish stuff.

Anyway, after a while I reported them/him to Party who monitored him for a while and then all four accounts were gone without ever coming back. So I assumed Party banned them/him.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]
There have been bots on Party after Saabpo. I got four accounts closed by reporting them some while ago.

Now I haven't played enough against juicy to have any opinion on the shadyness of his play. The sheer volume needed to be played to end up first in the leaderboard is odd of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually play the 33s, but for a few days had to drop down to the 22s. Although I don't care too much for seat selection in 22s, I noticed Juicy so made sure to sit to his right on multiple tables in the same set. I wondered how long it would take for him to adjust to the same player pushing into him on multiple tables, but he would only call pushes with good hands. I probably sat to his right on 6 tables in the period of a couple hours and he didn't seem to adjust to me. This doesn't prove he is a bot, but I expected him to adjust.

I couldn't imagine a single person playing 9-10 hours per day for 31 straight days.

[Edit]I can't remember if the amount of time his actions took varied.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

moral of the story: put most of your br in an ing savings account; u can instantly transfer it to your online roll, so no point in holding more than u need in a few hours of running poorly...u'll get interest AND protection from party seizing your funds

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]
moral of the story: put most of your br in an ing savings account; u can instantly transfer it to your online roll, so no point in holding more than u need in a few hours of running poorly...u'll get interest AND protection from party seizing your funds

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the real moral of the story is play honest and don't try to cheat the system and you'll be fine. The savings account thing is a good lesson though. $15k in an account for a $22 player is ridiculous. $2200 is about the max you should need, unless you are a bot and want the extra cushion.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

we don't know if he's using a bot or not

but we do know that nobody should be keeping 15k in an online br getting no interest

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

well the money had only been in there for a month. but anyway, yeah i am 100 % telling the truth when i say i've never used a Bot. bmxreed36 and i played on this account all last month and the second and third week of this month, alternating hours too keep the account going to accumulate TLB points. so thats it. i'm [censored].

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]
bmxreed36 and i played on this account all last month and the second and third week of this month, alternating hours too keep the account going to accumulate TLB points. so thats it. i'm [censored].

[/ QUOTE ] Umm, not to piss in your cheerios but I am reasonbly sure I have mutliple instances of playing with you and him at same 800 chip table in the last 6 weeks. I don't think you account was a bot but well I think that's pretty shady.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bmxreed36 and i played on this account all last month and the second and third week of this month, alternating hours too keep the account going to accumulate TLB points. so thats it. i'm [censored].

[/ QUOTE ] Umm, not to piss in your cheerios but I am reasonbly sure I have mutliple instances of playing with you and him at same 800 chip table in the last 6 weeks. I don't think you account was a bot but well I think that's pretty shady.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with the above, if it's true, is quite shady. also, i think it's a dick move to try to win the TLB in that fashion.

c

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

Don't know why you are all jumping to conclusions. So he's played enough sngs that would have him working 7-8 hrs a day. So what. Other people have played this much (think fiery said he played around 10hrs a day for a month).

Not pressing the popups isn't proof, and I think it's a pretty stupid thing for party to do anyway. It's the last thing a 10 tabler needs.

You should all wait until you have all of the facts before jumping to the conclusion that he used a bot.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't know why you are all jumping to conclusions. So he's played enough sngs that would have him working 7-8 hrs a day. So what. Other people have played this much (think fiery said he played around 10hrs a day for a month).

Not pressing the popups isn't proof, and I think it's a pretty stupid thing for party to do anyway. It's the last thing a 10 tabler needs.

You should all wait until you have all of the facts before jumping to the conclusion that he used a bot.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you believe a guy playing $22s 7-8 hours a day will end up above someone playing the 109s ten hours a day, not to mention those that play that many hours 8-tabling the $215s?

Anyway, he already admitted them trying to cheat their way to the $5k leaderboard payday.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

maybe you should ask bmxreed if he got any messages?

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

so what's going on? any progress getting yoru money back?

From what you said about sharing the account w/ bmxreed you probably shouldn't get the 5k you won (or did you not end up winning it).

This is a semi-interesting story.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

"Anyway, he already admitted them trying to cheat their way to the $5k leaderboard payday. "

What, taking shifts (just guessing)??

3000 sngs 10tabling would take ~7-8 hrs a day.

"So you believe a guy playing $22s 7-8 hours a day will end up above someone playing the 109s ten hours a day"

The hours don't matter, it's how heavy they're multitabling.

"not to mention those that play that many hours 8-tabling the $215s?"

People play 10hrs a day reguarly? Some life.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Anyway, he already admitted them trying to cheat their way to the $5k leaderboard payday. "

What, taking shifts (just guessing)??

3000 sngs 10tabling would take ~7-8 hrs a day.

"So you believe a guy playing $22s 7-8 hours a day will end up above someone playing the 109s ten hours a day"

The hours don't matter, it's how heavy they're multitabling.

"not to mention those that play that many hours 8-tabling the $215s?"

People play 10hrs a day reguarly? Some life.

[/ QUOTE ]

For a guy playing $22s playing 7-8 hours a day to get first on the leaderboard he would have to get an insane number of 1st and 2nds, while all those playing very high number of 109s and 215s would get an insanely low amount of 1sts and 2nds. This is for a whole month.

I think it is safe to say that this account was busy far more than 7-8 hours a day for him to get first on the leaderboard playing the 22s. He already admitted them playing as a team. The guy claiming they played 3000 tourneys took his info from Poker prophecy, which misses a lots of tournaments.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

Actually, 3k $22s with an 18% ROI would've topped the leaderboard (that would've netted 43k points).

Topping the leader board on 22s isn't nearly as extreme as some people think.

Now for the 7-8 hours a day it'd take a 10tabler to play 3k sngs in a month. Well it's hardcore, but it's definately doable.

None of this is unrealistic and I think I've shown this. It's very hardcore, but it's is far from impossible.

Edited to add: I don't think they deserves to lose 15k for playing as a team. Knocked off the leaderboard and forced to pay back that 5k prize? Sure, but they don't deserve to have their winnings confiscated.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

let's assume they were 8 tabling i guess, because i don't know about when we're talking about. then running continuous tables you're probably looking at something like 13 or 14 tables an hour. running the tables for 14 hours a day seems fairly reasonable if you've got two guys playing like nuts. now we're talking around 196 games a day. that's just around what, 5700 games a month to re-fudge factor.

that's a [censored] load of games.

juicy won the leaderboard last month at 41k points.

at 5700 games, if we say he gets 10% 1sts and 10% 2nds:

63.44 pts for first
44.86 pts for second

108.3 for each first second combo.

so if he plays 5700 games he gets 570x108.3 = >>>>>>41k points.

now let's look at it more rationally.

let's say that he gets 1st and 2nd again, 10% of the time. to get 41k points, he has to rack up: 378 instances of the 1st/2nd combo. this would mean 3780 games in a month at these rates, and again, this is a lot of games, but it's about 125 games a day, instead of the original stated figure. it's no where close to impossible. that's doable in 11 hours a day no sweat.

if someone offered me say, $100k to do so, i'd go rack up 40k leaderboard points next month. and no one would be able to come close to stopping me. (if someone wants to try, i'd do this in january. haha)

if we let our hero get 1st say, 15% of the time and 2nd 13% of the time, the numbers get better for hero.

we need to find X st 63.44x(.15)x(X)+44.86x(.13)x(X)=41000
so that's (9.516+5.3832)X=41000
X=41000/14.8992
X=2752

which is around 92 games a day.

and i don't think anyone's going to dispute that 92 games is possible during a day, even every day.

so ease the [censored] off, jeez. he was playing as a team, fine, but there's really no reason to say this is botlike persistence. before you start making a wild bunch of claims about what is or isn't possible while playing one stakes or another (particularly with someone as crazy as the TLB points formula) you should probably oh, i don't know, look at the damn formula.

c

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

it appears someone else did this with no math to prove his point.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]

Edited to add: I don't think they deserves to lose 15k for playing as a team. Knocked off the leaderboard and forced to pay back that 5k prize? Sure, but they don't deserve to have their winnings confiscated.

[/ QUOTE ]

His money wasn't confiscated for cheating on the leaderboard though. It was confiscated because the Party investigations team (who next to the guy himself should know most about his play, far more than any of us here on the board do) determined he was using a bot to play.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

I know, just that people will argue that he cheated so should have the money confiscated anyway.

You'd think party would have strong evidence to confiscate 15k given the way they handle collusion, but then again I think they just take a much tougher stance on bots. They're also quite incompetent, and it wouldn't surprise me if missing popups was all the evidence they had.

Not saying he didn't use a bot (it's unlikely he did if he's telling the truth about playing as a team), just that people shouldn't jump to conclusions without all the facts. Not that we're likely to get all the facts anyway.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

Party isn't going to release their stuff and Unreal_nh would never admit to using a bot even if he did, so I don't think we will get any further. I don't know if they even object to tag teaming for leaderboard glory. The whole point of the leaderboard is to get people to play an insane amount of poker to start with.

The main benefit from the discussion is that we all learned that if a popup comes, we better respond or we are SOL and possibly if you get a popup in a SnG, you are being investigated.

I do think they monitor the account for quite a while before shutting people down (at least they did for the bots I reported) so I have no reason to believe they don't check for response times. It isn't all too complicated to do.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, 3k $22s with an 18% ROI would've topped the leaderboard (that would've netted 43k points).

Topping the leader board on 22s isn't nearly as extreme as some people think.

Now for the 7-8 hours a day it'd take a 10tabler to play 3k sngs in a month. Well it's hardcore, but it's definately doable.

None of this is unrealistic and I think I've shown this. It's very hardcore, but it's is far from impossible.

Edited to add: I don't think they deserves to lose 15k for playing as a team. Knocked off the leaderboard and forced to pay back that 5k prize? Sure, but they don't deserve to have their winnings confiscated.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with everything you said. Maybee he got flagged as a possible bot because he and his friend played for so many hours/day over a long period?

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]
It isn't all too complicated to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're talking about party here.

If he didn't use a bot, then I hope he gets his money.

If he did use a bot, then he understood the risks and will no pay for it. It'd also be really silly to leave $15k in his account if he was using a bot, as he'd want to minimize his risk.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

I wish this was settled, but I don't see Party cooperating with you if they have already made their decision.

Maybe you were multi-tabling without enough breaks to warrant the suspicion of bot use?

It's also possible they thought you were using because of two different IPs using the same account?

Maybe you missed the pop-ups?

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

Well, it was when he tried to cash out that Party locked his account. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

For those that suppose that he may be a bot...

I thought that the best a bot could do was win a tiny percent ROI. At this stage of Bot development doesn't his winrate exonerate him ?

Not much of a defense to Party..

" I am too good to be a friggin bot !! "

but something to consider.

--
tjh

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

I figured i'd chime in here and say it is quite possible to win at a pretty high roi by just using normal push/fold strategy. It really isnt that hard if you just know when to push and fold. Next month, if I get motivated enough, I plan on putting in about 150 $55s or $109s a day every day. I will have no life, but I will have a pretty good chunk of change at the end of the month. Also, as to why he has played 3000 $22s, maybe he has no desire to move up because the $22s are profitable enough...why am I playing $22s right now? Because I am making the same amount I could make in the $215s with much smaller downswings. It is quite possible for one person to play 4500 sngs in a month and I see no reason why he couldnt do it. Oddly enough though, I kinda hope he was using a bot simply because I have very little morals and want to see a good bot pwn. As for not clicking the popups, every time I see one pop up in front of me, I think I lost a game until I read what it says...I couldnt imagine ever not clicking one.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

"Next month, if I get motivated enough, I plan on putting in about 150 $55s or $109s a day every day."

Please stick to the $109s, a number of us have already booked the $55s for a hardcore month in december.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

But why play 109s when I make the same amount in the $55s? I considered seeing if 33% roi was possible in the $33s, but I think that can wait. Table selection is a good thing. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

I wish you the best of luck with this. All I can say is to be persistent. I had the unfortunate experience of dealing with Party Poker for a research project (and I was just asking for info, not trying to get them to reverse a decision they made) and it took me hours of begging to get a hold of anyone. Though I'm sure it'll be difficult, keep pleading any case that you have and try to keep going higher up, they may listen.

Good luck.

-SonnyJay

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

Looks like the 55s will be pretty busy then. Think my ROI just shot down 5% after raptor and fiery announced that they'll be playing 55s around the clock.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

You and your partner would have to be pretty [censored] stupid to get those kind of (bot-like) hours in and ignore dozens of verification popups. Also, you still haven't explained why you had $15k sitting in your account.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

i don't think the 15k means much. bot or not he could easily cash out money. maybe he just likes to do it once every few weeks or something.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, you still haven't explained why you had $15k sitting in your account.

[/ QUOTE ]

alright, once and for all:

they had $15k in the account because they had $15k in the acct. what's so hard about that. they made a bunch of money and didn't take it out. that's what happens when you make money and don't take it out. i don't understand why this possibly needs explanation.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

I, and I am sure many others that put in near botlike hours, have much more than 15k in my account. If they were to close it, I would flip out. However, i'm not a bot, so I dont have to worry about it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

So now that we know Party is confiscating his money because he's a bot, can we call to get our share of it?

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

I couldnt even imagine the AIM convo if they closed your account fiery. I would probably book a flight immediately to prevent you from killing yourself.

Re: OT: HOW can i prove i\'m not a BOT???
 

[ QUOTE ]
I couldnt even imagine the AIM convo if they closed your account fiery. I would probably book a flight immediately to prevent you from killing yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol, that would suck, but I have to admit that it would be pretty amusing to see the stuff spouting out from FJ if party called him a bot and closed his account.