Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

Stat,

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For one thing, I also run into problems when thinking about, Where did God come from? or how He could have just eternally existed. I believe you answered this elsewhere, but I can't recall your exact reasoning.

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This was not I. You must have me confused with another poster. I have enough problems dealing with where did we come from, let alone God. Lol. Actually, I simply rely that He is eternal and forget about it. I guess atheists do the same thing absent a God. I mean they don’t get beyond what we know. I don’t get beyond that my God always was and is the creator.

As far as another dimension - I think that does not negate God. It might answer a few questions (not all of them I am sure). Not sure if it would answer the nothing question or not.

RJT

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

I was not thinking that I just arrived at some a brand new concept or theory. Philosophical or otherwise.

My post was meant to be taken literally. When I write, "I can't imagine it", it was meant as, " I can't imagine it". not... "I cannot imagine it so therefore it must not exist."

Maybe it's all the drugs I did in my youth, but it really trips me out thinking about this. I can't describe the intensity I felt trying to picture a state in which no single thing exists. Not even an atom. Not even time. A complete absence of everything!

This is how it must've been at one point unless we are to believe that the universe always existed in some state. It's just mind boggling to me.

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

i believe some people describe this feeling as death.

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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My post was meant to be taken literally.

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I thought I did take in literally -
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The concept of nothing is difficult, if not impossible, for me to contemplate. ..... I question whether nothing is even possible and this is why I'm agnostic and recognize the possibility of a creator or even an omnipotent God.

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My point being that if a person can't even comprehend a concept, how would it be possible to ever get to a "...that is WHY .." statement. Would it not be "I can't comprehend XYZ and therefore I can drawn no conclusions from it." ?

Compare your statement with - I can't comprehend imaginary numbers, that is why I think the tooth fairy will come tonight.
One reason we can't drawn conclusions from incomprehensible ( to us) concepts is that if we did comprehend them it may well rule out our 'out of thin air' surmise.

Here's one way I imagine nothing. I picture all matter in the universe stops moving, like the heat death,frozen, no motion, so no time ( I realize this is impossible but it's easy to imagine). Once I have this picture in my mind, I take all the matter out of the picture. Well, It's just as real as Einstein imagining riding on light beams.

in any case, I'm glad you brought up the topic and how difficult it is to feel comfortable with,

luckyme,
if I thought I was wrong, I'd change my mind

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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Another poster said that eternity doesn't exist because time is a dimension. Eternity means timelessness not time going on forever.

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Not true.

Eternity:
(1) Quality or state of being eternal
(2) Infinite time
(3) State after death
(4) Seemingly endless or immeasurable time

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

It's not that I feel I can draw conclusions, but let me ask you this.

Suppose I can't conceive of nothing AND I cannot conceive of a God just always being there. Total nothing is much harder for me to contemplate. Is it reasonable to think (at least for me), that the probability of there always being a God is higher than there ever being nothing? Again, just for me. Can I form the "belief" that God is the more likely scenario than nothing?

Like I explained to RJT, I realize that another dimension would take care of my nothing problem very easily and that's why unlike him, I cannot just to the conclusion of God. But we are talking about things that no one is even close to comprehending the answers to. So it doesn't seem unreasonable to me for people to form individual beliefs as long as they don't fly in the face of observable facts and/or evidence.

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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So it doesn't seem unreasonable to me for people to form individual beliefs as long as they don't fly in the face of observable facts and/or evidence.

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That seems a pretty loose and relatively useless definition of 'reasonable' ( 'reason'). Essentially it would be "anything I claim is reasonable unless you can prove me wrong ( flys in the face of ... " Usually we use that term as a building toward a conclusion based on positive evidence, block by block. But, I don't have any control over it's use, so have at it.

luckyme

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

You said "I question whether nothing is even possible and this is why I'm agnostic and recognize the possibility of a creator or even an omnipotent God. I just cannot imagine the reality of NOTHING, because even the reality of nothing is something!"

You say that you cannot imagine the reality of nothing. The implication I took was that our not being able to conceive of nothing has a bearing on whether or not it is possible for nothing to exist (otherwise I'm not sure what the point would be). So let's grant that it is impossible for us to conceive of nothing--why does this limitation have any bearing on the question of whether or not it is possible for nothing to exist?

You also say the reason why you are agnostic is because you don't know whether it is possible for there to be nothing. So, suppose it is in fact impossible for there to be nothing--that it is a necessary truth that something must exist. I ask--why does this fact have any bearing on the possibility that god exists, i.e., why should one be agnostic in light of this fact?

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

Buddhism. Mahayana especially. Read some sutras maybe ...

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

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RJT

The leaps are yours. Lestat does not attempt to nor does draw any conclusions. Stat, merely presents the issue for discussion.

RJT

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I beg to differ. Lestat said, "I question whether nothing is even possible and this is why I'm agnostic and recognize the possibility of a creator or even an omnipotent God."

This is an inference.

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

every once in a while throughout my 18 short years on this earth, probably about 5 or 6 times a year, while in deep thought I suddenly get an instant of imagining the NOTHING that i believe you are referring to, and it brings out the best feeling I've ever experienced so I hope that it is possible...I suppose that death is essentially this..so I'll finally get to experience that thought forever without having to suddenly be forcefully thrown back into a realization of the true world again...What a way to go out.

Re: Is Nothing Possible?
 

Nothing may be possible, but it is impossible to experience it.

Think about that. That is the great paradox of death. Kierkegaard wrote about it when he said that suicide is the desire to experience nothingness; but since death is the loss of consciousness, we cannot consciously experience it, and therefore the act is futile.