Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

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the most important thing I've noticed is that it has to be 4-5 people/bubble time.

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There's a 2nd one, which is just as important, IMO. And that is villain's stack size. He can't be pot committed with his bet, or even near pot committed. You're not knocking him off a 6, which is probably what he has (if he's tied himself to the pot that is).

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

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Why is the SB pot committed? He has almost 2100 left.

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He has 600 invested wih a little over 600 to call with 2 cards to come. The fact that he has 2100 left should HELP the decision to call as it won't cripple him. This is so obvious to me.

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Well, it's 835 to call to win 2035. He is getting good pot odds, but his hand is probably not that much better than ours. What hand is he just completing in the SB, provided he's not trapping, that he wants to get that involved with? Tough to call here with Q high, even getting 2.4-1.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

In general, pushing over an overbet is probably not the place to make this play. You'll get a lot of "embarassed/fu calls" from hands that probably shouldn't be calling, but are a huge favorite against yours.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

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I thought post-oak bluff was total bluff with no hand or outs. I'll have to change that to just a re-bluff I guess.

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NONONONONONONO!!! That's a stone bluff! Mike Sexton would be so disapointed [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

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If this is a $22-$55, I like the play more. So to answer your question, I would only use it against players I thought were mediocre; I'm scared of good, solid players overbet-trapping with a 9, and I'm scared of complete donks calling with crap/having a 9 and giving no thought to bet sizes --> relation to the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]It seems to me that this might be a situation where you want to have a little something so that rather than a re-bluff, you're actually making a semi-re-bluff. That way if you're a few levels of thinking above your opponent, you'll at least have some outs.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

I used to make those kind of plays all of the time. Until I started getting caught way too much. Now I only do it once in a while.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

For sngs this is pretty bad.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

Perhaps this has already been mentioned, but:

1) I don't like pulling this bluff into a big stack. There are far too many players who will call you.

2) I don't like the bluff on a paired board. There is a psychological trigger in players that always seems to tell them that you don't have a pair if the board is paired. This is why I hesitate to continuation bet automatically with hands like AQ, AK, or KQ into paired flops.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

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Perhaps this has already been mentioned, but:

1) I don't like pulling this bluff into a big stack. There are far too many players who will call you.

2) I don't like the bluff on a paired board. There is a psychological trigger in players that always seems to tell them that you don't have a pair if the board is paired. This is why I hesitate to continuation bet automatically with hands like AQ, AK, or KQ into paired flops.

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interesting. when i played 6max nl i stole very often on raggedy paired flops, especially from the blinds. it was a gold mine.

i will say it makes people a lot more willing to say "my 55 is the nuts."

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

A lot of good responses in this thread. Too many to respond to. But I want to respond to this one-

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I feel like, at the lower levels against donks, you're getting called too often with hands like 33 and AJ to make it +EV (although even then, it might be +EV, but marginally so). A donkey open-complete can mean anything, IMO - I'm not surprised if this play gets called by a donk AK-A10 or a mid/low pocket pair.

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This was a Stars $27. I feel like by level 5 a lot of the time you can have a read strong enough to at least have some idea whether a play like this would work. I had an idea of what the probability he was trapping me with a 9 - very small. Pocket pair - very small. 6 - possible from preflop, not possible from post flop. I really thought I was up against no pair here a huge (>90% of the time) against this opponent in this hand.

Not all opponents are created equal. Remember that, if you don't it will prevent you from using tools that work in some situations and not in others.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

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I used to make those kind of plays all of the time. Until I started getting caught way too much. Now I only do it once in a while.

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Yeah, that "notes" feature is pretty useful [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

I have fear of overbets in situations like this... but in general I do such things often depending on the situation. I'd be more likely to do this against a bet of 300...450 is often the kind of bet that is saying "I like my hand and will call you, but would rather you fold".

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

i love it, i prefer miniraising though.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

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I have fear of overbets in situations like this... but in general I do such things often depending on the situation. I'd be more likely to do this against a bet of 300...450 is often the kind of bet that is saying "I like my hand and will call you, but would rather you fold".

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I was thinking along those exact lines.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

Any play where you make an aggressive move based on a read is a good move. So yes, these types of moves are definitley in my arsenal.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

I will do this somewhat often with a hand that has some strong outs, even if it's only 1-4. With a hand that has no real strong outs, I make this play only rarely, usually only if I have a specific read on the villain.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

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I have fear of overbets in situations like this... but in general I do such things often depending on the situation. I'd be more likely to do this against a bet of 300...450 is often the kind of bet that is saying "I like my hand and will call you, but would rather you fold".

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You play at higher limits than me. I would probably tend to give overbets more respect in a 109 or a 215.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

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I really thought I was up against no pair here a huge (>90% of the time) against this opponent in this hand.


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How often do you think you're getting called by something like AK - A10. or even some broadway combinations? I don't think you're going to get called by something like Q10 much - but I've been surprised (in the past, when I've made similar moves) how often I've gotten called by hands like AJ or KQs - even though it's not a complete disaster to get called by such hands, I still hate it.

Regardless, if you had even a semi-solid read, then I like the play.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

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How often do you think you're getting called by something like AK - A10.

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I really felt this opponent would have raised preflop with any of these hands. I've been thinking about this hand a lot recently, I think the likeliest hand he might have that might call me is 55.

Re: Is this type of move part of your game?
 

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I used to make those kind of plays all of the time. Until I started getting caught way too much. Now I only do it once in a while.

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That's why you have to pick your spots [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]