Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

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Still, whether or not any of this is a good turn of events for them will be determined by how Curry's health turns out.

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Ummm, no. This is like poker and you can't be results orieneted. Based on all information available at the time, this is a total steal. What you wrote is like "whether or not it's a good decision to go for it on 4th down depends on if they make it." GMAB. I agree that they won't be as good, but I fully expected them to regress a little this year anyways.

Regarding Curry's talent in particular, the all-star talk is way out of line, even in the Eastern Conference. He may make one, but it's not like he's ever going to be a perennial all-star with his work ethic. And "productive player" at a max or near-max deal is just as big a salary cap killer as Tim Thomas is, but with a whole lot more years left. Ugh. I'm glad the heartache is over for the Bulls.

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You misunderstood me. I never questioned whether it was a good decision. I believe they made the best decision available to them, and I said as much. I'm not judging the decision, the only way I'm being results oriented is in judging... the results. Saying that this whole fiasco is a good thing for them is stretching. Knock Curry all you want, but he was perhaps the biggest factor in you guys making the playoffs last year. Come on, he's a big man with proven scoring ability, and he's 22. It's a shame that the Bulls were forced into trading him, and everyone in the organization would have rather kept him, no matter how you slice it.

I never said that he would be a perrenial allstar, but he will be an allstar caliber player. Michael Sweetney will not. And in regards to his work ethic, that's why we have LB (although I'm terrified at how this relationship will turn out).

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

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Isaih is absolutely [censored] horrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the way; Isiah has turned this roster around in less than 2 years. I can't complain. Look from a Knicks Messageboard I lurk at:

10-04-2005 1:53 PM
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I know we do this a lot, but it strikes me that the roster we had almost two years ago is nothing like the one we have now, moreso than ever. Two years ago we were hoping McDyess would magically heal and we got excited when Frank Williams got into the game. Sweetney wasn't even playing.
started with:
PG Ward
PG Eisley
PG FWilliams
SG Houston
SF Anderson
SF KVH
PF Weatherspoon
PF Harrington
PF Sweetney
PF McDyess
PF/C KThomas
C DMutombo
C MDoleac

now:
PG Marbury
PG NRobinson
PG/SG JCrawford
SG Hardaway
SG Houston
G/F QRichardson
G/F Ariza
F Lee
PF Rose
PF/C CFrye
PF ADavis
PF MoTaylor
C JJames
C ECurry

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

The roster definitely looks much more competitive. But the salaries of some of these players (Marbury, Crawford) is pretty high.

The only thing I care about is having enough money to sign Lebron in two years. I really hope Isiah is keeping this in mind.

How does the signing of free agents work? Do you have to be under the cap to do so? What is the cap even?

Anyway though, this team does look pretty solid overall. I think they should be able to make it to the playoffs.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
The roster definitely looks much more competitive. But the salaries of some of these players (Marbury, Crawford) is pretty high.

The only thing I care about is having enough money to sign Lebron in two years. I really hope Isiah is keeping this in mind.

How does the signing of free agents work? Do you have to be under the cap to do so? What is the cap even?

Anyway though, this team does look pretty solid overall. I think they should be able to make it to the playoffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to be a douche, but if you don't know about the NBA salary cap, I don't even know where to start...It's a long complicated process. In a nutshell, yes for good players, you have to be under the cap, or do a sign and trade, or have them take the MLE...

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

I think it's tough to judge. Yes, on paper our roster is a lot stronger than it was before Isiah took over, and certainly worth more attention. On the other hand, he has made some pretty terrible deals, and killed our cap space (even more than before) giving out absurd contracts like candy. What it boils down to, I think, is that Zeke understands what New York sports is all about. We want to be a contendor NOW, we want to be worth watching NOW, we will not idly support a lackluster team while it rebuilds the right way. I think there was an enormous amount of pressure for Zeke to make the franchise do a 180 immediately. So he's been in rush mode ever since he took over, and what we have now is a salary cap disaster, but a team which seems to be on the cusp of a playoff berth after only two years of wild deals. I'm not sure but I think the fact that Isiah was prematurely ousted from his old job before he got a chance to fully develop his young players may be contributing to some of the hysterical panic mode deals he's made.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

I'm glad the Bulls got rid of Antonio Davis and that ridiculous 14 million a year he was getting. Front line of Chandler and Sweetney with a great backcourt is going to be fun to watch.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's tough to judge. Yes, on paper our roster is a lot stronger than it was before Isiah took over, and certainly worth more attention. On the other hand, he has made some pretty terrible deals, and killed our cap space (even more than before) giving out absurd contracts like candy. What it boils down to, I think, is that Zeke understands what New York sports is all about. We want to be a contendor NOW, we want to be worth watching NOW, we will not idly support a lackluster team while it rebuilds the right way. I think there was an enormous amount of pressure for Zeke to make the franchise do a 180 immediately. So he's been in rush mode ever since he took over, and what we have now is a salary cap disaster, but a team which seems to be on the cusp of a playoff berth after only two years of wild deals. I'm not sure but I think the fact that Isiah was prematurely ousted from his old job before he got a chance to fully develop his young players may be contributing to some of the hysterical panic mode deals he's made.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't understand, unless you only added 1m a year players, as long as Houston was on the team, we would be over the cap until he retires. Whether it be 3-5m over, or 25m over, I don't care it's Dolans money.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

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I'm glad the Bulls got rid of Antonio Davis and that ridiculous 14 million a year he was getting. Front line of Chandler and Sweetney with a great backcourt is going to be fun to watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Expiring contract for an expiring contract, TT makes even more then Antonio Davis btw. He will also be a douchebag.

Sweetney is a very likeable player, Chicago will love him.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
The roster definitely looks much more competitive. But the salaries of some of these players (Marbury, Crawford) is pretty high.

The only thing I care about is having enough money to sign Lebron in two years. I really hope Isiah is keeping this in mind.

How does the signing of free agents work? Do you have to be under the cap to do so? What is the cap even?

Anyway though, this team does look pretty solid overall. I think they should be able to make it to the playoffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the nba cap, what u need to know is that if you are over the cap u can only sign free agents from your own team, or use the mid-level exemption which is an amount of money determined by the average salary of the league. You can also do a sign and trade, but the knicks have no where near enough to trade for Lebron.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The roster definitely looks much more competitive. But the salaries of some of these players (Marbury, Crawford) is pretty high.

The only thing I care about is having enough money to sign Lebron in two years. I really hope Isiah is keeping this in mind.

How does the signing of free agents work? Do you have to be under the cap to do so? What is the cap even?

Anyway though, this team does look pretty solid overall. I think they should be able to make it to the playoffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the nba cap, what u need to know is that if you are over the cap u can only sign free agents from your own team, or use the mid-level exemption which is an amount of money determined by the average salary of the league. You can also do a sign and trade, but the knicks have no where near enough to trade for Lebron.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets not forget that the player needs to be with your team for three years for Bird rights. (Isiahs biggest mistake to date was only signing Ariza to a two year deal)

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just don't understand, unless you only added 1m a year players, as long as Houston was on the team, we would be over the cap until he retires. Whether it be 3-5m over, or 25m over, I don't care it's Dolans money.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to Hoops Hype, the Knicks will have a salary of 49 million at the end of the 2006/07 season, the year Lebron becomes a FA. The salary cap for last year according to Inside Hoops was 49.5 million.

Does the addition of Curry (which will vault the Knicks over the probable salary cap in 2007/08) preclude them from signing Lebron as a FA? It's probably just wishful thinking on my part because Isiah will probably trade Penny this year and Houston, Mo Taylor, and Shandon Anderson next year to dig us deeper in this hole.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

This isn't the Yankees, the well is not bottomless. Giving out and taking on huge contracts for people who don't deserve them severly handicaps our ability to sign players in future free agent pools, and locks up our ability to make any kinds of trades in our favor. We're taking on all of the bloated contracts that smart GMs are trying to get away from.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
With the nba cap, what u need to know is that if you are over the cap u can only sign free agents from your own team, or use the mid-level exemption which is an amount of money determined by the average salary of the league. You can also do a sign and trade, but the knicks have no where near enough to trade for Lebron.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it possible to just sign him as a FA (and not trade for him)? I just think it would make sense for the Knicks to ensure they are under the cap the year he becomes a FA so we can at least have a shot at signing him.

Obviously if we have to trade for him we have no chance.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
This isn't the Yankees, the well is not bottomless. Giving out and taking on huge contracts for people who don't deserve them severly handicaps our ability to sign players in future free agent pools, and locks up our ability to make any kinds of trades in our favor. We're taking on all of the bloated contracts that smart GMs are trying to get away from.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only contract that runs beyond Houstons is Marbury's correct? Give me all the bloated contracts you want as long as they end in 07.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With the nba cap, what u need to know is that if you are over the cap u can only sign free agents from your own team, or use the mid-level exemption which is an amount of money determined by the average salary of the league. You can also do a sign and trade, but the knicks have no where near enough to trade for Lebron.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it possible to just sign him as a FA (and not trade for him)? I just think it would make sense for the Knicks to ensure they are under the cap the year he becomes a FA so we can at least have a shot at signing him.

Obviously if we have to trade for him we have no chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. The Heat traded for Shaq. Sign and trades happen.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only contract that runs beyond Houstons is Marbury's correct? Give me all the bloated contracts you want as long as they end in 07.

[/ QUOTE ]
Crawford, Q, Malik Rose, Jerome James, and Eddy Curry (?) will all make 6-8 million in 2007/08.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With the nba cap, what u need to know is that if you are over the cap u can only sign free agents from your own team, or use the mid-level exemption which is an amount of money determined by the average salary of the league. You can also do a sign and trade, but the knicks have no where near enough to trade for Lebron.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it possible to just sign him as a FA (and not trade for him)? I just think it would make sense for the Knicks to ensure they are under the cap the year he becomes a FA so we can at least have a shot at signing him.

Obviously if we have to trade for him we have no chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. The Heat traded for Shaq. Sign and trades happen.

[/ QUOTE ]
Right but the Knicks don't have any talent to do a sign and trade for a player like Lebron, so our only chance is FA signing, no?

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I just don't understand, unless you only added 1m a year players, as long as Houston was on the team, we would be over the cap until he retires. Whether it be 3-5m over, or 25m over, I don't care it's Dolans money.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to Hoops Hype, the Knicks will have a salary of 49 million at the end of the 2006/07 season, the year Lebron becomes a FA. The salary cap for last year according to Inside Hoops was 49.5 million.

Does the addition of Curry (which will vault the Knicks over the probable salary cap in 2007/08) preclude them from signing Lebron as a FA? It's probably just wishful thinking on my part because Isiah will probably trade Penny this year and Houston, Mo Taylor, and Shandon Anderson next year to dig us deeper in this hole.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Knicks would have to do something to get under the cap by 07, correct. This is par for the NBA though.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

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The only contract that runs beyond Houstons is Marbury's correct? Give me all the bloated contracts you want as long as they end in 07.

[/ QUOTE ]
Crawford, Q, Malik Rose, Jerome James, and Eddy Curry (?) will all make 6-8 million in 2007/08.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored], I'm so used to saying this that I forgot about the new players in the last year. Please forgive me, I suck.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With the nba cap, what u need to know is that if you are over the cap u can only sign free agents from your own team, or use the mid-level exemption which is an amount of money determined by the average salary of the league. You can also do a sign and trade, but the knicks have no where near enough to trade for Lebron.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it possible to just sign him as a FA (and not trade for him)? I just think it would make sense for the Knicks to ensure they are under the cap the year he becomes a FA so we can at least have a shot at signing him.

Obviously if we have to trade for him we have no chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. The Heat traded for Shaq. Sign and trades happen.

[/ QUOTE ]
Right but the Knicks don't have any talent to do a sign and trade for a player like Lebron, so our only chance is FA signing, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Often an expiring contract + draft picks is enough, look at what the Lakers got for Shaq (Butler/Odom and Grant); or what Denver gave up for New Jersey (3 picks). It's not that unreasonable to believe, that Mo Taylor(for the $$ expiring contract), Trevor Ariza/Robinson/Lee/Frye (whichever young kid(s) ends up being good) and a few #1s would be more then enough. Knicks take Lebron and whatever garbage cleveland makes us take (I bet Ilgouskas will be almost crippled by 2007)

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

Getting Lebron is a pipe dream for the Knicks. They clearly won't be under the cap, so a trade is the only way it happens. That isn't likely since the Cavs would basically have to agree to do it. Sign and trades generally happen when the original team doesn't want to pay -- Kmart -- the player is very unhappy and making huge salary demands -- Shaq -- or extenuating circumstances a la Curry.

Fun stat on the Knicks center postion. Knicks 2 centers (Curry and James) combined for 8.4 rebounds in 45.5 minutes last year.

Dan Gadzuric went for 8.3 rebounds in 22 minutes last year.

James actually averaged more fouls than rebounds last year while Curry would have ranked #12 in rebounds per game amongst shooting guards.

Here is Jerome Curry's stat line 45.3 minutes

The good....

21 points
52.5% FG
72% FT
2.31 BPG

The bad....

.62 SPG
3.7 TO's

The awful....

8.4 RPG
0.8 APG
6.7 PF

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

You're forgetting his one good playoff series, which totally warranted a big contract, despite years of mediocrity.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

I really wanted Gadzuric. Good post.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
(Isiahs biggest mistake to date was only signing Ariza to a two year deal)

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Holy [censored], I did not know this. This just ruined my day.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're forgetting his one good playoff series, which totally warranted a big contract, despite years of mediocrity.

[/ QUOTE ]

For a few moments yesterday I thought Jermaine Jackson was Jerome James and was very happy...

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(Isiahs biggest mistake to date was only signing Ariza to a two year deal)

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy [censored], I did not know this. This just ruined my day.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was not Thomas' choice to sign him to a 2 tear deal. All NBA draft picks have preset deals coming out of the draft depending on where they were picked. First round picks have three year deals, second round picks have two year deals (this is what screwed the warriors with gilbert arenas, who was drafted in the second round). This is definitely the way it was under the old cba, im not sure about the new one

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With the nba cap, what u need to know is that if you are over the cap u can only sign free agents from your own team, or use the mid-level exemption which is an amount of money determined by the average salary of the league. You can also do a sign and trade, but the knicks have no where near enough to trade for Lebron.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it possible to just sign him as a FA (and not trade for him)? I just think it would make sense for the Knicks to ensure they are under the cap the year he becomes a FA so we can at least have a shot at signing him.

Obviously if we have to trade for him we have no chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. The Heat traded for Shaq. Sign and trades happen.

[/ QUOTE ]
Right but the Knicks don't have any talent to do a sign and trade for a player like Lebron, so our only chance is FA signing, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Often an expiring contract + draft picks is enough, look at what the Lakers got for Shaq (Butler/Odom and Grant); or what Denver gave up for New Jersey (3 picks). It's not that unreasonable to believe, that Mo Taylor(for the $$ expiring contract), Trevor Ariza/Robinson/Lee/Frye (whichever young kid(s) ends up being good) and a few #1s would be more then enough. Knicks take Lebron and whatever garbage cleveland makes us take (I bet Ilgouskas will be almost crippled by 2007)

[/ QUOTE ]

That might be true except for two factors. 1. by 2007 Lebron could be the best player in the league and 2. More importantly the owner of the Cavs would have to be insane to let his team trade Lebron because Lebron is worth so much to the team marketing wise. If they lose Lebron, they are automatically rebuilding and they lose a large portion of their fan base.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

I think it's going to depend very heavily on what Lebron wants to do. There have been a lot of stars in the past who would make you say that the owner would have to be insane to let them go, but they demand a trade and they're gone. Shaq, Joe Johnson, and Vince Carter are examples. If they know they're going to end up losing him anyway the following year, they have to scramble to get as much for him as they can while they still have a chance, or end up with nothing.

For the next two years, it's really all about making Lebron happy enough to stay there. They seem to be on the right track, but a front office melt down like last year's, or some unforseen problems, and Lebron will be asking out, and they won't really have much chance other. Who knows what he wants? The extra 20 million that the Cavs can offer him as a RFA will play a role as well.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

doesnt matter how the team looks now from2 years ago. they still suck and are expensive

instead of old,shitty,expensive they are young shitty expensive

and marbury isnt that good

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
(Isiahs biggest mistake to date was only signing Ariza to a two year deal)

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy [censored], I did not know this. This just ruined my day.

[/ QUOTE ]



It was not Thomas' choice to sign him to a 2 tear deal. All NBA draft picks have preset deals coming out of the draft depending on where they were picked. First round picks have three year deals, second round picks have two year deals (this is what screwed the warriors with gilbert arenas, who was drafted in the second round). This is definitely the way it was under the old cba, im not sure about the new one

[/ QUOTE ]

Second rounders can get 3 years. See Carlos Boozer.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

Marbury is a loser and a team killer. The only good thing about him is that when teams trade him away, they always get a lot better. The good news is that since Larry Brown is more important than him, he will either become a winner or he will be traded. That's really the good news with the entire team. People are underestimating the Larry Brown factor. Fellating LB almost makes up for all of Isiah's mistakes.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

I am crazy to think the Knicks could win the Atlantic Division this year. With LB at the helm the starters should be

PG Stephon Marbury 21.7 3.0 8.1
SG Jamal Crawford 17.7 2.9 4.3
SF Quentin Richardson 14.9 6.1 2.0
PF Eddy Curry 16.1 5.4 0.6
C Jerome James 4.9 3.0 0.2

and coming off the bench will be

F-C Antonio Davis 7.0 5.9 1.1
F-C Channing Frye -- -- --
G Allan Houston 11.9 1.2 2.1
G Nate Robinson -- -- --
F Malik Rose 8.3 4.4 0.7

They are better then Boston, Toronto and Philly.(IMO) I think the only team that might be better is NJ.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

We've got an extremely talented backcourt, and a deep and strong front line. The problem is that everyone on the roster has had trouble actually playing as well as they're capable. It's really all going to come down to how much LB can squeeze out of these guys, and with his track record as far as getting people to play their best ball, we have every reason to be optimistic.

We will not win the division though. New Jersey is leaps and bounds ahead of New York. And depending on fast Boston's kids develop, they might not be far behind. I don't see Philly doing much this year, although Webber still has a chance to prove me wrong. I still think New York has an excellent chance of making the playoffs (if the Curry deal goes actually goes through that is), although home court is out of the question.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am crazy to think the Knicks could win the Atlantic Division this year. With LB at the helm the starters should be

PG Stephon Marbury 21.7 3.0 8.1
SG Jamal Crawford 17.7 2.9 4.3
SF Quentin Richardson 14.9 6.1 2.0
PF Eddy Curry 16.1 5.4 0.6
C Jerome James 4.9 3.0 0.2

and coming off the bench will be

F-C Antonio Davis 7.0 5.9 1.1
F-C Channing Frye -- -- --
G Allan Houston 11.9 1.2 2.1
G Nate Robinson -- -- --
F Malik Rose 8.3 4.4 0.7

They are better then Boston, Toronto and Philly.(IMO) I think the only team that might be better is NJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the rebounding numbers of your frontcourt. And that the two best defenders are on your bench -- AD and Rose -- and both are quite limited in what they bring to the table.

The Knicks will have to be one of the highest scoring teams in the league because they are going to give up a ton of points.

NJ is much better and I think Philly has the edge despite their lack of depth simply because they have a much better defensive team. Boston and Toronto are both pretty bad.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

The Knicks are a dog to make anything higher than a 7 seed.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

ESPN Radio News in Boston is reporting that Eddie has failed the physical. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

It's good for the Knicks I think. Sucks to give up Sweetney - I think he's gonna be a solid player.

Btw, what are the Bulls doing with Deng, Sweetney and Tim Thomas at SF?

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
ESPN Radio News in Boston is reporting that Eddie has failed the physical. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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Weird, ESPN.com is saying that the trade went through and doctors have cleared him to play.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
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ESPN Radio News in Boston is reporting that Eddie has failed the physical. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Weird, ESPN.com is saying that the trade went through and doctors have cleared him to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com...ry_chtx101.jpg

Curry at training camp, it looks like he cleared.

Re: Knicks get Eddy Curry
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's good for the Knicks I think. Sucks to give up Sweetney - I think he's gonna be a solid player.

Btw, what are the Bulls doing with Deng, Sweetney and Tim Thomas at SF?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sweetney is a 270 lb PF. Deng is one of the Bulls cornerstone players at SF, so he will be the starter. TT will come off the bench for a year then sign elsewhere, most likely.