Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Actually the Google definition answered the question of why poker is called gambling and investing in stocks isn't.

We use the term gambling for making a wager on a GAME or CONTEST, not because it has a chance element in it. Think about it, buying homeowners or car insurance has an element of chance to the monetary outcome but it isn't called gambling.

Maybe what we aren't recognizing is that gambling has a shady reputation NOT JUST BECAUSE IT CAN BE -EV, although that is part of it. I can think of at least three reasons why gambling as defined above can be viewed negatively- 1. (-EV argument) most "gamblers" lose money in the long run, some even disasterously so,
2. gamblers spend their time playing a game or betting on a contest that has no intrinsic value except their own amusement.
3. It is a zero sum game where for every winner there is a loser.

By contrast the stock market is a "gamble", but generally we don't call buying stocks gambling because it involves more than betting on a game -- In this case, you are giving money to a company which (hopefully) will put that money into growing the company, making more products, providing jobs, etc., and you make some money in the process.

When you play poker, no products are being produced, and until the 2003 WSOP, very little public entertainment was produced either.

I admit that I have mixed feelings about spending so much time doing something that is mainly mental puzzle solving but which really probably won't make the world an iota better off.

Unless of course I win the PP Million and donate a bunch to charity. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

Ich bin erschrockt -erschrockt!- dass es gibt kerfilozlinkiting in diesem Haus!

Hmm... it lacks a certain je ne sais quois. To really sound German it would have to be something like Werterwarteterspielen ("Wert-erwarteter-spielen" or "expected value playing"] -- but I suppose the charm of that neologism depends on your appreciation of really strained multilingual puns and other forms of organic brain damage.

Fahigkeitubergluckspielen?
Rentabelselbsttäuschung?
Abweichungspiel?
Selbstmordreiztspielen?
Stattstudierenarbeit? (or maybe Universitätsbiersyndrom?]

Sorry. I guess I'm just not in a properly German state of mind [Richtigerdeutschergeisteszustand?] What was it Goethe said? "Die Wahrheit liegt im Wein..."

In the meantime, I think there'd be something intriguingly ambiguous about a self-styled "expectation player" [as opposed to an "expectoration player", which would be something entirely different].

Suddenly, all those years in medical school are looking like a smart choice again.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually the Google definition answered the question of why poker is called gambling and investing in stocks isn't.

We use the term gambling for making a wager on a GAME or CONTEST, not because it has a chance element in it. Think about it, buying homeowners or car insurance has an element of chance to the monetary outcome but it isn't called gambling.

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Here, I'll put the part that disagrees with that all by itself in a quote box:

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Gambling (or betting) is any behavior involving the risk of money or valuables on the outcome of a game, contest, or other event in which the outcome of that activity is partially or totally dependent upon chance or on one's ability to do something.

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Anyway, when you invest in stocks, you are taking a gamble. I bought into a mutual fund that lost a couple hundred dollars almost right away; it still hasn't grown back up to what I started with. I took a risk with my money hoping that outcome of this activity that is partially dependent on chance would make me some money.

Say you get yourself some car insurance, lets say you get yourself minimum coverage. If your car gets stolen, you get nothing. In most accidents, you will get nothing. Pretty much, minimum coverage give you nothing in most cases. Right there, you are taking a gamble with your car. Just because a word is generally associated with certain activities, doesn't mean that it can't be applied to others.

Let's try some sentences:

<ul type="square">[*]"Wait," he ejaculated, "I forgot my wallet!"[*]I feel molested by his presence.[/list]
Ok, that sounded kind of sarcastic when I read it, but it's the truth.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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Ich bin erschrockt -erschrockt!- dass es gibt kerfilozlinkiting in diesem Haus!

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"Erschrokt"? Meinen sie erschreckt, oder vieleicht geschockt?

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Hmm... it lacks a certain je ne sais quois. To really sound German it would have to be something like Werterwarteterspielen ("Wert-erwarteter-spielen" or "expected value playing"] -- but I suppose the charm of that neologism depends on your appreciation of really strained multilingual puns and other forms of organic brain damage.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I would suggest something like "filtzverarbeitung" (working over the felt). Advantage play would probably be "vorteilsspiel." Maybe something like geldueberlegungsspielerwertungsarbeit, of course, something like that is hard to read.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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Poker is also betting on random events (the outcome of the cards)

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spectacularly wrong

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Poker is both a game of gambling (read: luck) AND a game of skill.

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also wrong

poker is a game of skill

gambling used to mean the playing of games of chance which obviously means poker wasnt gambling - as often happens the meaning of the word has changed over time - by popular definition it now means wagering on the outcome of an event

if your having trouble explaining it to your girlfriend i reccomend buying her something expensive and telling her you won the money to pay for it playing poker

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

It's gambling, period. If you think it's something other than that you shouldn't be playing it.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

yes. personal investment manager who specializes in **risk management...**

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is also betting on random events (the outcome of the cards)

[/ QUOTE ]

spectacularly wrong

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is both a game of gambling (read: luck) AND a game of skill.

[/ QUOTE ]

also wrong

poker is a game of skill

gambling used to mean the playing of games of chance which obviously means poker wasnt gambling - as often happens the meaning of the word has changed over time - by popular definition it now means wagering on the outcome of an event

if your having trouble explaining it to your girlfriend i reccomend buying her something expensive and telling her you won the money to pay for it playing poker

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

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What bull. If I recall correctly you also have some whacky definition of luck as well. You really need to buy a dictionary.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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What bull

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which bit ?

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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betting on completely random events (coin flips, a ball landing on 8 black).

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Or cards being laid out on the table.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is also betting on random events (the outcome of the cards)

[/ QUOTE ]

spectacularly wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

Spectacularly wrong.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is both a game of gambling (read: luck) AND a game of skill.

[/ QUOTE ]

also wrong

poker is a game of skill

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To deny the existance of luck in poker is absurd.

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gambling used to mean the playing of games of chance which obviously means poker wasnt gambling

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Again, absurd.

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as often happens the meaning of the word has changed over time - by popular definition it now means wagering on the outcome of an event

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It has and always will mean exactly that.

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if your having trouble explaining it to your girlfriend i reccomend buying her something expensive and telling her you won the money to pay for it playing poker

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This, I agree with.

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is also betting on random events (the outcome of the cards)

[/ QUOTE ]

spectacularly wrong

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Spectacularly wrong

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when i cap my open ended straight flush draw on the flop 3 handed its because i know the frequency with which i will hit means i'm getting value for my money - this works for me so either i can predict the outcome of random events or its not random

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is both a game of gambling (read: luck) AND a game of skill.

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also wrong

poker is a game of skill

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To deny the existance of luck in poker is absurd

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i confess that i would like to deny the existence of luck but i cant - to say that poker is a game of luck is like identifying a specific pope as the one who always wears a beanie - the pope always wears a beanie - it is a tautology - what your trying to do is describe what sort of game it is - poker is a game of skill

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gambling used to mean the playing of games of chance which obviously means poker wasnt gambling

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Again, absurd

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if you read my post you would appreciate that i agree that poker is gambling - i am certain however that the word gamble was once specifically meant to refer to the playing of games of chance - i cant be arsed doing the research on the issue that i did about 7 years ago to successfully demonstrate this in a court room but i can tell you that my oxford dictionary still gives precisely that definition (and others) to the word

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as often happens the meaning of the word has changed over time - by popular definition it now means wagering on the outcome of an event

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It has and always will mean exactly that

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like i said above it hasnt always meant that

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if your having trouble explaining it to your girlfriend i reccomend buying her something expensive and telling her you won the money to pay for it playing poker

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This, I agree with.

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i meant no slight to girlfriends or girls in this reply - i've been hanging out with an outrageously smart girl for the last 15 years and she doesnt get the difference between roulette and poker but she does remain conspicuously quiet about it since i bought her a big rock

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

Re: We need a new word for \"gambling\"
 

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this works for me so either i can predict the outcome of random events or its not random

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No, I can predict the frequency that I will wake up (pretty much every single day), however I cannot predict the exact time I will wake up. You are confusing long term probability with short term results. You are gambling when playing poker so get over yourself.