Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
I hope some day I will be able to play the 100NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not as expensive as some might think. The blinds are only 2/3. The buy in is $100 and you can rebuy for $150 if you bust out. It's a great game to make money becuase the pots can get so big. The other night I left with $1400 after only buying in for $100 about 7 hours earlier.

If you happen to time it right you can sit down at a new game where everyone buys in for $100 so you're not up against big stacks. After a few hours you can have a big stack and then when someone buys in you can push them around.

Re: Going pro Article
 

Answering several different posts at once...

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of room for job promotion playing poker unless you are in the top tier. Not to mention lack of benefits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I pay for my benefits. It's an expense just like any other. And some expenses are lower because I work from home.

How does a poker player get a promotion? By continually working on his game, to increase his win rate, and to move up in limits.

[ QUOTE ]
And don't forget to take off about 25% in taxes. So now he's down to $3K/M. What's his rent, grocery, utility, car payments, etc, bills? Maybe $2K/M? More if he's living in LA, SF, NY or another big city. Now he's down to 1K/M profit. So he's making a profit of 12K per year

[/ QUOTE ]

Last I heard, people with good paying jobs:

- paid taxes
- had rent, grocery, utility, and/or car payment bills
- Sometimes lived in or near large cities
- Did not look only at what they made after living expenses as "profit"

[ QUOTE ]
and ruining his eyes staring into his PC screen :-)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why we get big LCD screens. Plus any decent job I would get would involve staring at a computer screen anyway (probably not an LCD).

Anyway, I'm not sure what the point of all this discussion is.

If you:

- can't beat the game for enough to live on
- don't like the lifestyle
- don't have the discipline
- are still a student
- have a good job
- have a family

Don't quit to become a poker pro.

But don't say that it can't be done, or that it is exceptionally hard, because there are a lot of us doing it and we know that's not the case.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
for aprox 75 hours a month you think thats bad at 3-6? ok
you need to play 150 hours to make 4k. is that good? Ypu tell me

[/ QUOTE ]
No that's not good.

[/ QUOTE ]
4k a month is an above average salary. Maybe it is less than you are accustomed to, but I would consider anything above average to be good in the general sense of the word. Especially when you can make an above average salary playing low limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Above average if you work at Walmart. With all the college kids on 2+2 I'd hope your sights were set a little higher than 4K a month. My son just graduated college with a degree in theater and was offered a 24K a year starting salary for part time work while he builds his resume.

BTW, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of room for job promotion playing poker unless you are in the top tier. Not to mention lack of benefits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. 4k a month is 48k a year. That is well above what the average american makes in a year, and twice as much as your son who just graduate college. And no offense, but with a degree in theater your son will be lucky to ever make more than 48k a year. (I could be wrong in this, maybe theatre is bigger in your area - but I have recently graduated from college, and all of my friends that have a degree in theatre or anything similar, have yet to find a job related to their degree -- the jobs are hard to come by and don't seem to pay a lot, however I am not saying that is bad, if it makes you happy that is the most important thing -- something that most people cannot say about their office jobs).

I agree with you, in almost every case, it is better to work than play poker (as most people do not have what it takes, not matter what it sounds like reading the posts on this site). All that I'm saying is that if you are making 4k a month (48k a year), then you are making an above average income. If you do that playing poker great, no you aren't getting any benefits, so 48k a year playing poker would probably be the equivalent of around a 38k - 42k a year job with benefits.

Benefits sound great, but you can also provide for your benefits if you are making enough (i,e, invest the same percent of your money as you would put into 401k, plus what the company would have matched, etc...).

Other than health insurance (which can be anywhere from cheap if you are young and single (I am paying less than $100 a month for health and dental on my own -- less than I had to pay at my last employer where they matched half of it) - to expensive if you a family or prior medical conditions, and 401k, there really aren't many other benefits that are worth a significant of money that you get working a full time job.

As far as job promotion goes playing poker -- you are always going to be doing the same thing. However, you can get "promoted" by improving your game and increasing your bankroll enough to beat the next level. This in its own sense is your promotion, you now make more money (if your good enough). The people making 48k a year playing $3/$6 are surely good enough to make more at a higher limit if they truely wish to apply themselves. Is this type of job promotion fulfulling? For some yes, for others no. If you would get burnt out doing this, a full time job would definitely be the better choice for you.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
Play 2000 hours a week

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the key to becoming an online poker pro.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
for aprox 75 hours a month you think thats bad at 3-6? ok
you need to play 150 hours to make 4k. is that good? Ypu tell me

[/ QUOTE ]
No that's not good.

[/ QUOTE ]
4k a month is an above average salary. Maybe it is less than you are accustomed to, but I would consider anything above average to be good in the general sense of the word. Especially when you can make an above average salary playing low limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Above average if you work at Walmart. With all the college kids on 2+2 I'd hope your sights were set a little higher than 4K a month. My son just graduated college with a degree in theater and was offered a 24K a year starting salary for part time work while he builds his resume.

BTW, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of room for job promotion playing poker unless you are in the top tier. Not to mention lack of benefits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. 4k a month is 48k a year. That is well above what the average american makes in a year, and twice as much as your son who just graduate college. And no offense, but with a degree in theater your son will be lucky to ever make more than 48k a year. (I could be wrong in this, maybe theatre is bigger in your area - but I have recently graduated from college, and all of my friends that have a degree in theatre or anything similar, have yet to find a job related to their degree -- the jobs are hard to come by and don't seem to pay a lot, however I am not saying that is bad, if it makes you happy that is the most important thing -- something that most people cannot say about their office jobs).

I agree with you, in almost every case, it is better to work than play poker (as most people do not have what it takes, not matter what it sounds like reading the posts on this site). All that I'm saying is that if you are making 4k a month (48k a year), then you are making an above average income. If you do that playing poker great, no you aren't getting any benefits, so 48k a year playing poker would probably be the equivalent of around a 38k - 42k a year job with benefits.

Benefits sound great, but you can also provide for your benefits if you are making enough (i,e, invest the same percent of your money as you would put into 401k, plus what the company would have matched, etc...).

Other than health insurance (which can be anywhere from cheap if you are young and single (I am paying less than $100 a month for health and dental on my own -- less than I had to pay at my last employer where they matched half of it) - to expensive if you a family or prior medical conditions, and 401k, there really aren't many other benefits that are worth a significant of money that you get working a full time job.

As far as job promotion goes playing poker -- you are always going to be doing the same thing. However, you can get "promoted" by improving your game and increasing your bankroll enough to beat the next level. This in its own sense is your promotion, you now make more money (if your good enough). The people making 48k a year playing $3/$6 are surely good enough to make more at a higher limit if they truely wish to apply themselves. Is this type of job promotion fulfulling? For some yes, for others no. If you would get burnt out doing this, a full time job would definitely be the better choice for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Time out. I'm not saying you can't do it or shouldn't do it. Hey if your dream or passion or desire is to play poker for a living go for it. The original question was: [ QUOTE ]
you need to play 150 hours to make 4k. is that good? Ypu tell me

[/ QUOTE ] And I told him: No I don't think that's good.

As to my son, you are 100% correct. $24K per year plus benefits is a far cry from $48K a year, but it gives him the time and BR to persue his dream. Who knows, 10 years from now he may decide the trying to get into the Industry is a waste of time and take up poker as a living.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't quit to become a poker pro.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't try and equate being a full time internet poker player with being a poker pro. Just becuase some of you can multitask and play a bunch of games at once and make a living out of it doesn't mean that you are truly a professional poker player. You are more like a professional game player, using technology to help you maximize your game. It's only when you can come to a B&M casino, sit down with your money and play face to face and make a living at it that you are truly a professional poker player.

In a short while you'll all be playing against online bots who will have no problems matching your 6 - 10 table at a time play and who will never get tired. Those of us who play in the real world will never have to suffer the indignities that you will soon be facing.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
Time out. I'm not saying you can't do it or shouldn't do it. Hey if your dream or passion or desire is to play poker for a living go for it. The original question was:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you need to play 150 hours to make 4k. is that good? Ypu tell me


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And I told him: No I don't think that's good.

As to my son, you are 100% correct. $24K per year plus benefits is a far cry from $48K a year, but it gives him the time and BR to persue his dream. Who knows, 10 years from now he may decide the trying to get into the Industry is a waste of time and take up poker as a living.

[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken, and just to make sure we are clear -- I was not trying to take a shot at you or your son. I hope the theater career works out. I took a job in computers and although it pays well (in my standards), there are definitely other jobs out there that I would find much more enjoyable. Who will be happier later in life? Probably your son.

I guess we just disagree on what "good" is. 150 hours to make 4k is about 26.67 per hour. I think that is good (but I am still young at and early in my "career." For you, that might be chump change. We are obviously at different points in our careers and have different mindsets when it comes to money.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
Please don't try and equate being a full time internet poker player with being a poker pro. Just becuase some of you can multitask and play a bunch of games at once and make a living out of it doesn't mean that you are truly a professional poker player. You are more like a professional game player, using technology to help you maximize your game. It's only when you can come to a B&M casino, sit down with your money and play face to face and make a living at it that you are truly a professional poker player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whatever. The game I play is poker. I don't live close enough to any B&M casinos to try this anyway. And even if I did, I probably would find it too boring. Also, maybe I'm not good enough to win enough to live on, with the increased rake, tips, and other costs. Certainly I'd have to be willing to withstand a greater period of lower income while working my way up the limits, just to find out whether I'm good enough or not. I'd rather make $40-$50/hr at low limit games without leaving the house, and with plenty of room to move up from there.

[ QUOTE ]
In a short while you'll all be playing against online bots who will have no problems matching your 6 - 10 table at a time play and who will never get tired. Those of us who play in the real world will never have to suffer the indignities that you will soon be facing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course if the games get bad for whatever reason, most of us will have to do something else. I guess this is true for anyone whose chosen field could fall under economic difficulties. I'm not ready to worry about the bot doomsday scenario just yet though.

Re: Going pro Article
 

what a ridiculous post that guy had.


I file my taxes as a 'professional gambler'.

Poker (95% of it online) is my sole source of income.
It is my 'profession'.


Some 'pro' players travel around and hit all the big tourneys on the WPT, etc.
Even if they are getting staked or are deep in debt you might still consider them a pro because they are playing all the big, live tourneys.

Well....I play poker from home...and i make more than they do (that is, I'm not in debt).


I've played some live poker too..but this is just recreational mostly .
Because I can get in about 10x more hands per hour at home (Plus, I don't have to tip and the rake is better) it is obviously FAR more profitable to play online.



Your claim that I'm not a 'pro' even though online-poker is idiotic. my 'profession' or 'sole source of income' is poker.
It's my choice to not regularly make the 40 minute drive to the nearest poker-room.
It's my choice to play where I can make more money.

Re: Going pro Article
 

Where you've all mentioned playing 3/6 and 5/10 you mean NL right???

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
Please don't try and equate being a full time internet poker player with being a poker pro. Just becuase some of you can multitask and play a bunch of games at once and make a living out of it doesn't mean that you are truly a professional poker player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will very humbly suggest that anyone that can successfully be profitable 12-tabling 6-max games on the internet playing 1200 hands/hr is far more of a pro than someone sitting in a B&M playing 40 hands/hr.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
Where you've all mentioned playing 3/6 and 5/10 you mean NL right???

[/ QUOTE ]

No, we mean limit.

Lets say you've got a B&M 5/10 limit player making 1BB/hr - $10/hr.

Now let him play 4 tables online. You get twice as many hands per hour per table, so that's 8 times as much, so theoretically he can make $80/hr. In reality he will lose some of his edge playing 4 tables. But he will gain about $2 per raked pot won in reduced rake and no tip, and about $12.50/hr in rakeback. This all together could add about $30/hr to his win rate, but let's call it a wash because of his reduced edge. Even if you're only half as good as this guy, you can still make a decent hourly rate at these games.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please don't try and equate being a full time internet poker player with being a poker pro. Just becuase some of you can multitask and play a bunch of games at once and make a living out of it doesn't mean that you are truly a professional poker player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will very humbly suggest that anyone that can successfully be profitable 12-tabling 6-max games on the internet playing 1200 hands/hr is far more of a pro than someone sitting in a B&M playing 40 hands/hr.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. In my mind all it makes you is a very good onlime gamer - no different than playing video games except you happen to be playing for money. Guys, living in your own closed off, computer controlled world is not healthy. You need to go out and see the sun and get laid. You need to come to a B&M and sit down at the table with real chips in your hand and be able to look at the rest of the table and size them up quickly. When the cocktail waitress with the tiny miniskirt comes over you need to be able to concentrate on your hand. You need to be able to see the anger in your opponents face after he's taken a bad beat from you and realize that he's on tilt so you can go for the kill. No, what you guys are doing is no different from shooting at aliens on your PS2. Just because a few of you make a living at it doesn't mean you can call yourselves professionals. Not until you've done it in the real world can you ever hope to claim that title.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
Guys, living in your own closed off, computer controlled world is not healthy. You need to go out and see the sun and get laid.

[/ QUOTE ]

An online multitabler can play more hands in a few hours 1 day/month than you can play sitting in a B&M all month. Its entirely possible that they are getting alot more sun than you are.

[ QUOTE ]
You need to come to a B&M and sit down at the table with real chips in your hand and be able to look at the rest of the table and size them up quickly.... You need to be able to see the anger in your opponents face after he's taken a bad beat from you and realize that he's on tilt so you can go for the kill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't a player able to size up the other players at the table without seeing their faces be even more of a pro.

[ QUOTE ]
When the cocktail waitress with the tiny miniskirt comes over you need to be able to concentrate on your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

When your naked girlfriend comes up to you at the computer and you click the sit out button... sounds better to me!

[ QUOTE ]
Not until you've done it in the real world can you ever hope to claim that title.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many WSOP winners that qualified online will it take before you are convinced that playing online is the real world [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

The world has changed, embrace it!!

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
Please don't try and equate being a full time internet poker player with being a poker pro.

[/ QUOTE ]
Online poker and B&M poker are different games. So is golf. To say that someone who is making a big income playing online poker is not a pro is just silly. If you want to say that online poker is not poker ... well online poker is different. That doesn't make it better or worse.

[ QUOTE ]
Guys, living in your own closed off, computer controlled world is not healthy.

[/ QUOTE ]
This on the other hand is truly silly. Online poker is a much healthier lifestyle if you want it to be:

1. No driving. Driving is one of the most dangerous things we do.

2. Sensible food from my own kitchen versus overpriced and often unhealthy casino food.

3. No carrying around large amounts of money and possibly being attacked.

4. Plenty of free time to exercise.

5. Lots of time with wife and kids instead of chasing cocktail waitresses and socializing with drunks and compulsive gamblers.

6. Less stress due to losing streaks because the online player typically plays a lot more hands but at lower stakes.

7. No smoke.

8. Nice, properly-adjusted, ergonomic chair instead of whatever the poker room has available.

9. Less germs.

Actually this may be your point. Being a full-time B&M player is such an unhealthy lifestyle I'm not sure I could tolerate it for very long. So maybe they are the "real" pros [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Re: Going pro Article
 

oh, i didnt realize that. thanks

Re: Going pro Article
 

i love it. The whole point of this post was that it is irresponsible to promote the idea that 50k is no big deal multi tabling 3-6.
here is what i know and what the publishers of this site know. that people will continually look for the "Holy Grail", of how win at poker because of the nature of the game and the swings. It doesnt matter how much"Discipline",
game-theory, statistical knowledge, etc etc you have.
95% of you dont have the mental ability to cope with the downside of this game.PERIOD! Do you buy every poker book that comes out, just so you dont miss something new as far as strategy is concerned? Are you constantly in search of the"Correct starting hands for various game types? Are you searching for that optimal strategy out of the blinds?
if so, you are not even close to being ready for a pro career at poker. Do you feel that in order to win a poker tourney, you cant do it without HOH volume 1 and 2 ?
Folks, its not that these are bad books, it's just that, that isnt what you ultimately need to handle this game.
Many of the top pros have major gambling problems, substance abuse problems, etc etc. But its this disregard for money that actually helps them succeed at the poker table.
if on the internet a 200-300 bb swing is common place, then a negative swing of 1200 big bets is very possible.
but when this happens, the player to whom this happens will be out of the game well before it gets to that point.
its just the nature of being human. many of the ring pros who have made it had enough money before they started.
So, if you still want to go pro or are playing for a living now and you are winning, please keep in mind that it wont always be this way. if you are considering this, make sure you have plenty of money, because even if you have the ability to return to a job, it will be difficult becuse you will keep telling yourself, "just one more try". also get a mentor, .. someone who is actually doing it to help. good l;uck to you all, you will need it

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
When your naked girlfriend comes up to you at the computer and you click the sit out button... sounds better to me!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's so funny. Don't try and be something you're not. Most of you online players are 250-500lbs of pasty skin flab. Sure, you may have a girlfriend - but she'll be the beached whale type so it doesn't really count. I'm really laughing pretty good at your weak attempts to sound like big shots.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. No driving. Driving is one of the most dangerous things we do.

2. Sensible food from my own kitchen versus overpriced and often unhealthy casino food.

3. No carrying around large amounts of money and possibly being attacked.

4. Plenty of free time to exercise.

5. Lots of time with wife and kids instead of chasing cocktail waitresses and socializing with drunks and compulsive gamblers.

6. Less stress due to losing streaks because the online player typically plays a lot more hands but at lower stakes.

7. No smoke.

8. Nice, properly-adjusted, ergonomic chair instead of whatever the poker room has available.

9. Less germs.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. No driving. Driving is one of the most dangerous things we do.
--Only if you don't know how to drive.

2. Sensible food from my own kitchen versus overpriced and often unhealthy casino food.
--If that were really true except we all know it isn't. I know your pizza delivery bills are a lot more than my free casino food (free becuase I am a club member so every time I sit at my NL table for a few hours I earn enough points to eat free for days if I want to). And my menu choices are huge and contain many healthy items.

3. No carrying around large amounts of money and possibly being attacked.
--I just deposit it in my casino bank and take withdrawels when I want to. This is the big city. No one is going to try and jack me for a few thousand or if they do it would be hard since the freeway entrance is right around the block.

4. Plenty of free time to exercise.
--Ahhh hahahahahah. C'mon please? Don't even try and fool anyone with that line.

5. Lots of time with wife and kids instead of chasing cocktail waitresses and socializing with drunks and compulsive gamblers.
--IF you were actually married AND had actually fathered kids. We both know that the percentage of online players that have done this is very low. And I guess sitting at your computer all day or night playing for cash wouldn't be considered compulsive? Would it?

6. Less stress due to losing streaks because the online player typically plays a lot more hands but at lower stakes.
--Losing is losing. Playing more hands only means that when you do hit your losing streak it will be faster and deeper than a B&M player.

7. No smoke.
--Smoking in casino's here in LA has been illegal for years.

8. Nice, properly-adjusted, ergonomic chair instead of whatever the poker room has available.
--So you can sit in your chair for 8 - 10 hours? Even with an ergonomic chair that is unhealthy.

9. Less germs.
--OK. That's the only point I'll concede a little bit. Poker chips and cards do have germs. Most of us get around that by washing our hands every now and then. BTW, when was the last time you cleaned your keyboard and mouse? Has anyone but you used them? Have they sneezed? Have they picked their nose and then typed something?

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
i love it. The whole point of this post was that it is irresponsible to promote the idea that 50k is no big deal multi tabling 3-6.
here is what i know and what the publishers of this site know. that people will continually look for the "Holy Grail", of how win at poker because of the nature of the game and the swings. It doesnt matter how much"Discipline",
game-theory, statistical knowledge, etc etc you have.
95% of you dont have the mental ability to cope with the downside of this game.PERIOD! Do you buy every poker book that comes out, just so you dont miss something new as far as strategy is concerned? Are you constantly in search of the"Correct starting hands for various game types? Are you searching for that optimal strategy out of the blinds?
if so, you are not even close to being ready for a pro career at poker. Do you feel that in order to win a poker tourney, you cant do it without HOH volume 1 and 2 ?
Folks, its not that these are bad books, it's just that, that isnt what you ultimately need to handle this game.
Many of the top pros have major gambling problems, substance abuse problems, etc etc. But its this disregard for money that actually helps them succeed at the poker table.
if on the internet a 200-300 bb swing is common place, then a negative swing of 1200 big bets is very possible.
but when this happens, the player to whom this happens will be out of the game well before it gets to that point.
its just the nature of being human. many of the ring pros who have made it had enough money before they started.
So, if you still want to go pro or are playing for a living now and you are winning, please keep in mind that it wont always be this way. if you are considering this, make sure you have plenty of money, because even if you have the ability to return to a job, it will be difficult becuse you will keep telling yourself, "just one more try". also get a mentor, .. someone who is actually doing it to help. good l;uck to you all, you will need it

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent points. I agree with you that most of these online gamblers who have experienced some success for a few months or a year or so think that they will always be so succesfull and it's just not true. They are spending all their time online and a few of them are putting away 12-15k profit (after all living expenses) BUT they are not building any skills that will help them succeed in the real world. That profit they have can go very, very quick with the kinds of multitable hands some of them play. Most of them will also burn out in a few short years and even the ones with 30-45k in the bank then will see how fast this can be depleted with no other source of income.

If they try and take their profits and go pro in the B&M they will realize very quickly how unprepared they really are. Oh, there's no doubt that a few will have success but the vast majority will fail miserably - just like every other person who has gone pro over the years.

Meanwhile, those of us who play in B&M but are not doing it full-time as pros have real jobs where we can advance our careers, have real interactions with people, put away money in 401k's or have pension funds, etc. In short we have real lives and we get to enjoy our poker.

I also agree with you that the majority of poker pro's are cumplusive gamblers and many of the most well known names have had huge money swings - even more so in the past 2 years when the tournament money has become so huge.

Re: Going pro Article
 

Rotter you really need to start giving up some ground. You're sounding like a stubborn 16 year old who has stars in his eyes from watching too much WSOP on TV.

The fact of the matter is that if your primary source of income is poker, than you are a poker professional. Want proof? Here it is:

Dictionary.com definition of "professional"
1. A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
2. One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
3. A skilled practitioner; an expert.

Its safe to say that online players fall under this definition.


As for our lifestyle being unhealthy, I dont know why your view on us is so skewed. Though there are a bunch of fatties who are playing poker and not seeing the sun, as you've seen on TV, there are plenty of fit players who qualify and play regularly online.

As for my personal daily schedule -
9am - wake up
between 9 and 12 - swim for an hour, and then breakfast if im hungry
12 - lunch
2 to 6 - 4 hours of poker.
6 to 9 - Dinner, and relax and watch a movie or tv usually
9 to 1 - another 4 hours.
Sleep.

On the weekends ill go out and do whatever. Frisbee, drink, etc.

I'm very far from fat.


Most of us who have the discipline to put in the hours by ourselves without a boss also have the discipline to keep in good shape and maintain our social lives as well. Why you arent believing us baffles me.

And if you're going to compare the skill of online players to B+M pros, just look at how many online players have been winning major tournaments recently. I'm not saying that online players are better, but we obviously hold our own.

At least concede that there are a large number of us that are maintaining healthy lifestyles through online play.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
And if you're going to compare the skill of online players to B+M pros, just look at how many online players have been winning major tournaments recently. I'm not saying that online players are better, but we obviously hold our own.

At least concede that there are a large number of us that are maintaining healthy lifestyles through online play.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where I disagree. How many online players are there in the world or just here in the US? Millions? Hundreds of thousands? How many have won major tournaments recently? Less than a dozen? OK, let's say around 25 in the last year (I really have no idea of the actual number). See where I'm going with this? According to your odds online players should be filling up the money places in all major tournaments all the time but it isn't happening that way.

Re: Going pro Article
 

Gosh, someone who agrees with me, im not sure how to handle it. lol just kidding.
the way to get rich playing poker is to play it part time and invest your profits into index funds or other long term vehicles. if you make 8-12k a year playing poker you can become rich over the years by putting it into solid long term investments. But playing as a pro you will unlikely ever have excess money, as you will always need to pay the nut plus have a large playing bankroll.

Re: Going pro Article
 

ill bet you dont invest one cent of your profits towards retirement or investments. I wish you luck. If things chaNGE for you I hope youll come back to the forum and talk about those experiences as well. good luck

Re: Going pro Article
 

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While they sit and waste away at their PC's I'm out there at the B&M playing 100NL

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LOL you stick to your 100nl poker career and I'll stick to my "online gaming career" And go ahead and get all the free food you want with your "club card"

At the end of the week my career will have made me more money than yours ever will.

After you've spent 40 hours a week in the casino actually playing poker plus add up all the time you've spent driving there, and waiting to get on a table you'll have played what 1600 hands tops for a 45-50 hour plus work week?

I'll continue to play 12 tables of online gaming for 650 hands an hour and laugh as it took me 3 hours to acomplish what it took you more than 40 hours to do.

And on top of that I won't have to pay for gas, put the miles on my car, I'll pay less rake and get 30% of my rake returned to me each month as a bonus.

At the end of the month I guarantee you that my bankroll will have grown a lot more than yours, and I'll have put in a lot less time than you.

But what do I know? You play 100NL (What a joke)

Re: Going pro Article
 

I didnt say internet players were better than B+M players. I said we hold our own.

The # of successful net pros is actually fairly low id imagine. A few thousand at most, id say.

Pit a B+M pro against a net pro in a bunch of heads up matches, the B+M pro will probably come out ahead. But that doesnt make the net pro not a pro. And it doesnt make him a pale fat degenerate either.

Re: Going pro Article
 

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That's so funny. Don't try and be something you're not. Most of you online players are 250-500lbs of pasty skin flab. Sure, you may have a girlfriend - but she'll be the beached whale type so it doesn't really count. I'm really laughing pretty good at your weak attempts to sound like big shots.

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Was it your experience that the WSOP ME looked like a Overeaters Annonymous meeting?

Re: Going pro Article
 

you play 12 tables eh? would you post your results since you must make at least a six figure income... right?
Tell us more educate us.

Re: Going pro Article
 

That is correct, I 12 table the 2-4 and 3-6 limits.

I have been 12 tabling about 3 months now, before that I was 8 tabling for about a year, as far as results go if it was any of your business, i would tell you. But even a trained monkey (i'm not insulting you here) can figure out the money I am making from rakeback alone is fairly close to the 50K a year figure that you say is damn near impossible.

About 3 months ago I started a thread on how to add a 3rd monitor for the sole purpose of 12 tabling, I was having some technical issues and was getting the runaround from a lot of different places.

Look it up if you don't believe me, and if you do not believe me I do not care.

Rakeback= 675 hand per hour x 30% rakeback (.03-.04 per hand depending on 2-4 or 3-6) =$20.25-$27.00 per hour on rakeback alone.

Re: Going pro Article
 

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ill bet you dont invest one cent of your profits towards retirement or investments. I wish you luck. If things chaNGE for you I hope youll come back to the forum and talk about those experiences as well. good luck

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That bet sure would be some -EV for you.

Retirement? No, i dont have a retirement account. I'm 20 and worried more about investments.

Yes I said investments. You couldnt be more wrong in your assumption about that.

I'm lucky enough to have a father who knows the real estate business and teaches me how to reinvest my money to make it work for me.

I currently own and rent out 2 houses and joint-own 2 apartment buildings amounting to 20 total units. All of this was accomplished through poker profits. So far these investments have actually lost me some money, but because of poker, it is a hit i can easily take. Seeing as the market is in the gutter right now, once it improves (and real estate always does) the plan is to accumulate 100 units, bundle them together, and sell them to a cali or NY investor. They go apeshit over midwest prices.


I dont understand your "if things change" comment. You're saying that if I go bust I should come back and tell you about it? Ok... I'll make sure I do that.

I also dont understand why you take my success and spin it in a negative way. Your little retirement/investments spin has very little to do with the original post and seems to just be an attempt to knock me down a few pegs because I'm doing better than you are.

I've posted about my experiences many times. I teach friends how to do the same thing I do. There really is no secret aside from having the discipline to put in the hours day after day.

Since my return to the professional scene, i've completed 12k hands (in 4 days) and made close to 3k including rakeback and prop pay. I have been running fairly well, but I'd still be happy with even half that return.
Instead of my 6 straight hours, I split it to 2 separate 4 hour sessions with a 3 hour gap. The 6 hour session would tire me out, these 4 hour sessions havent left me fatigued at all.

So I repeat:
Just because you cant jump on the bandwagon, doesnt mean there isn't one.

Re: Going pro Article
 

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i love it. The whole point of this post was that it is irresponsible to promote the idea that 50k is no big deal multi tabling 3-6.
here is what i know and what the publishers of this site know. that people will continually look for the "Holy Grail", of how win at poker because of the nature of the game and the swings. It doesnt matter how much"Discipline",
game-theory, statistical knowledge, etc etc you have.
95% of you dont have the mental ability to cope with the downside of this game.PERIOD! Do you buy every poker book that comes out, just so you dont miss something new as far as strategy is concerned? Are you constantly in search of the"Correct starting hands for various game types? Are you searching for that optimal strategy out of the blinds?
if so, you are not even close to being ready for a pro career at poker. Do you feel that in order to win a poker tourney, you cant do it without HOH volume 1 and 2 ?
Folks, its not that these are bad books, it's just that, that isnt what you ultimately need to handle this game.
Many of the top pros have major gambling problems, substance abuse problems, etc etc. But its this disregard for money that actually helps them succeed at the poker table.
if on the internet a 200-300 bb swing is common place, then a negative swing of 1200 big bets is very possible.
but when this happens, the player to whom this happens will be out of the game well before it gets to that point.
its just the nature of being human. many of the ring pros who have made it had enough money before they started.
So, if you still want to go pro or are playing for a living now and you are winning, please keep in mind that it wont always be this way. if you are considering this, make sure you have plenty of money, because even if you have the ability to return to a job, it will be difficult becuse you will keep telling yourself, "just one more try". also get a mentor, .. someone who is actually doing it to help. good l;uck to you all, you will need it

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Excellent points. I agree with you that most of these online gamblers who have experienced some success for a few months or a year or so think that they will always be so succesfull and it's just not true. They are spending all their time online and a few of them are putting away 12-15k profit (after all living expenses) BUT they are not building any skills that will help them succeed in the real world. That profit they have can go very, very quick with the kinds of multitable hands some of them play. Most of them will also burn out in a few short years and even the ones with 30-45k in the bank then will see how fast this can be depleted with no other source of income.

If they try and take their profits and go pro in the B&M they will realize very quickly how unprepared they really are. Oh, there's no doubt that a few will have success but the vast majority will fail miserably - just like every other person who has gone pro over the years.

Meanwhile, those of us who play in B&M but are not doing it full-time as pros have real jobs where we can advance our careers, have real interactions with people, put away money in 401k's or have pension funds, etc. In short we have real lives and we get to enjoy our poker.

I also agree with you that the majority of poker pro's are cumplusive gamblers and many of the most well known names have had huge money swings - even more so in the past 2 years when the tournament money has become so huge.

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Why do you feel the need to demean those who have taken a different life path than you? It seems to me the type that would be rooting for others to fail is very jealous. And yes I know you didn't say you're rooting for anyone to fail, but lets be honest, it's very obvious that it's what you're hoping.

Re: Going pro Article
 

link

you think 6-8 tables is unreasonable?

Re: Going pro Article
 

20 tables on 1 monitor certainly qualifies as extreme!

Re: Going pro Article
 

Totally with you.
Have a Good Luck

Re: Going pro Article
 

Both you and PokerHorse may want to visit the MTT or STT forums. I think you'd both learn a lot.

Re: Going pro Article
 

I haven't read past page 1, so forgive me if this is repetitive...but is 4K a month before taxes, health care, retirements savings, etc. a realistic salary? You'd get the same deal at Starbucks at not have to sweat a variance bomb every month.

Re: Going pro Article
 

you just need a chip and a chair

Re: Going pro Article
 

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I haven't read past page 1, so forgive me if this is repetitive...but is 4K a month before taxes, health care, retirements savings, etc. a realistic salary? You'd get the same deal at Starbucks at not have to sweat a variance bomb every month.

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Money is all relative... From a "global" perspective, 50K/yr probably puts you in the top 1% of earners.

Re: Going pro Article
 

You dont have to respect my comments since i dont have a poker book or wpt tourney win. Both Roy Cooke, (in his last article) and barry greenstein talk about how it doesnt make sense in their opinions to try and play more than 2 tables at once.
If your good enough to play 4-5 tables or more , why would you?? just move up. bye the way what is mtt stt ?? spell it out

Re: Going pro Article
 

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If your good enough to play 4-5 tables or more , why would you?? just move up.

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There are a lot of fair but not great players with strong 'video game' skills who make good money playing a lot of small stakes tables. To make the same money playing only two tables they would have to move up to stakes so high they couldn't win at all.

Plus basic math says that the variance monster is a lot less destructive if you get your action by playing many hands at lower stakes instead of fewer hands at higher stakes. Moving up to play less tables greatly increases bankroll requirements and tilt/stress issues.

The essence of good poker is putting yourself in the situation that makes you the most money. Many of the multitabling small stakes pros are exactly where they should be.

Others are doing themselves a disservice by failing to develop their talents. These players could work their way up and eventually make much better money if they reduced the number of tables they play.

Like most things in poker "it depends" on who you are, what you are capable of, and what you want from poker. But for many successful multitabling players moving up would be poker suicide. Beware of cookie-cutter career advice.