Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

I got bored last night and decided to try and get some FPPs toward one of my five stacked up bonuses at Stars. I played 2 hours (a very long session for me) and got 37 FPPs.

Goodbye Stars

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

but if you were silver you'd have gotten 55.5!

Enjoy!

seriously though, this program seems designed to reward the true VIPs, not low stake chumps like myself. Oh well, I'll still play MTTs there.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In shorthanded limit games 10/20 and up what they offer is basically 13% rakeback once you reach Supernova. Nothing to write home about.
I'm very disappointed.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be fair you would probably need to calculate in the insane number of free rolls that will be avaialble on a weekly/monthly basis.

If my quick calculations are correct, once the SuperNova Free rolls start in April, PokerStars will be returning back to players well over 2 million dollars a year in free rolls. It is my understanding (hope) that these free rolls will have flat payouts, i.e., that is paying more places a decent amount and not so much at the top.

Free Rolls

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I 4table 5/10. Just doing some super quick math, it looks like the stars VIP program is worth $10/hr to me (less than that, since I can't redeem it for straight cash). Party rakeback is worth about $25/hr to me.

How much more in rake am I paying an hour at Party? Is it enough that I'm getting about the same value playing at either site?

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember that obtaining a higher status is relatively simple. That will increase you $/hr much.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Here's a question.

As you move up to SilverStar, GoldStar, etc... do your VPP's accrue at the same increased rate as your FPPs?

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I got bored last night and decided to try and get some FPPs toward one of my five stacked up bonuses at Stars. I played 2 hours (a very long session for me) and got 37 FPPs.

Goodbye Stars

[/ QUOTE ]

What game were you playing? Must be $0.50-1.00 or lower. At $2-4 and up it accrues much faster.

Bobby

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a question.

As you move up to SilverStar, GoldStar, etc... do your VPP's accrue at the same increased rate as your FPPs?

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume not, it makes much more sense if it doesn't.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I 4table 5/10. Just doing some super quick math, it looks like the stars VIP program is worth $10/hr to me (less than that, since I can't redeem it for straight cash). Party rakeback is worth about $25/hr to me.

How much more in rake am I paying an hour at Party? Is it enough that I'm getting about the same value playing at either site?

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember that obtaining a higher status is relatively simple. That will increase you $/hr much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was already accounting for that. Buying the WSOP prelim event entries or GC's, a FPP is worth about 1.6 cents. I guessed that I get 250 qualifying FPP hands an hour with 4 tables 5/10short - I could be off there. That's about $10/hr at the platinum level. At the supernova level, Stars is almost certainly the better place to play at 5/10, but that might take 3 months for me to reach.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

This is pretty good for mid-high stake nl players, as nearly every pot we play is raked.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

I have to say I'm pretty impressed with this vip idea. I think stars executed it fairly well, especially when compared to other "vip" programs *coughpartycoughbeaniehatscough*. Sure, it won't be as good as a rakeback deal, but if you have a lot of points sitting around there are some really awesome options. And for lower limit players like me it's not incredibly difficult to at least make a silver or gold membership.

good job stars.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Are you gettign both FPP's AND VIP points? Haven't had time to look through it. Someone who has please enlighten me a:)
Was just thinking that VIP points are slightly less worth than the current FPP's.

ToT

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In shorthanded limit games 10/20 and up what they offer is basically 13% rakeback once you reach Supernova. Nothing to write home about.
I'm very disappointed.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be fair you would probably need to calculate in the insane number of free rolls that will be avaialble on a weekly/monthly basis.

If my quick calculations are correct, once the SuperNova Free rolls start in April, PokerStars will be returning back to players well over 2 million dollars a year in free rolls. It is my understanding (hope) that these free rolls will have flat payouts, i.e., that is paying more places a decent amount and not so much at the top.

Free Rolls

[/ QUOTE ]

I was hoping for some rewards for cash players, but it looks like the entire program is aimed at tournament players again. I don't care about freerolls because they are tournaments and tournaments are stupid.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
At the supernova level, Stars is almost certainly the better place to play at 5/10, but that might take 3 months for me to reach.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Here's a cut-and-paste from another thread:

[ QUOTE ]
I so badly want to move over to Stars, but can't justify it with rakeback elsewhere. This new VIP program is MUCH better than what was going on before, but it still doesn't cut it vs. the rakeback.

The funny thing is I don't think I would have any problem hitting the Platinum level on a regular basis, and I still don't think it makes sense to switch over. Right now I'm getting about 18-20,000 hands per month at 5/10, figure 75% of those are raked (I need to check my PT to see if this is accurate), which would get me about 13-14,000 FPPs per month. (with the 150% multiplier it comes out to 32,000 FPP's per month!)

If you look at the stuff in the VIP FPP store, it looks like 32,000 FPP's (my monthly take) would equal roughly $600.

Figure that vs. $650-700 per month in rakeback and I still can't see justify switching over. Why take a limited selection of stuff from the FPP store when I can just get the equivalent cash?

I need to do some more homework on this to see what makes sense. Maybe I'll play a month at Stars after the first of the year and see how I make out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

If Stars changed the program so that we got a second FPP when the rake hit $3 I would definitely switch to stars. I'd probably be happy even if it was 1.5 FPP at $3, but as it is now it just doesn't seem worth it if you play games that normaly hit the max rake.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I got bored last night and decided to try and get some FPPs toward one of my five stacked up bonuses at Stars. I played 2 hours (a very long session for me) and got 37 FPPs.

Goodbye Stars

[/ QUOTE ]

What game were you playing? Must be $0.50-1.00 or lower. At $2-4 and up it accrues much faster.

Bobby

[/ QUOTE ]

I rarely play limit poker online. If I do play limit, I play stud. I was playing NL/50 & 100. It's a max $50 buy-in--not a mandatory $50 buy-in like on Party, which means a lot of short stacks, which is bad--but that's another story.

On party a raked pot is $1.00. On Stars I believe it has to be $5.00.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the supernova level, Stars is almost certainly the better place to play at 5/10, but that might take 3 months for me to reach.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Here's a cut-and-paste from another thread:

[ QUOTE ]
I so badly want to move over to Stars, but can't justify it with rakeback elsewhere. This new VIP program is MUCH better than what was going on before, but it still doesn't cut it vs. the rakeback.

The funny thing is I don't think I would have any problem hitting the Platinum level on a regular basis, and I still don't think it makes sense to switch over. Right now I'm getting about 18-20,000 hands per month at 5/10, figure 75% of those are raked (I need to check my PT to see if this is accurate), which would get me about 13-14,000 FPPs per month. (with the 150% multiplier it comes out to 32,000 FPP's per month!)

If you look at the stuff in the VIP FPP store, it looks like 32,000 FPP's (my monthly take) would equal roughly $600.

Figure that vs. $650-700 per month in rakeback and I still can't see justify switching over. Why take a limited selection of stuff from the FPP store when I can just get the equivalent cash?

I need to do some more homework on this to see what makes sense. Maybe I'll play a month at Stars after the first of the year and see how I make out.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

if 5/8 of the hands at 5/10 get u a FPP (which i think is probably closer to accurate than 3/4, since not all raked pots get u a FPP...if anyone has real data i'd welcome it), then you're getting 14% rakeback with stars at the supernoval level. you're also paying lower rake than at party and playing with faster software. the last two factors i'm not going to bother quantifying, but i figure that it more than makes up for the difference between 25% and 14% rakeback.

not being able to get cash rewards is a dealbreaker when its relatively close between the two though

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a question.

As you move up to SilverStar, GoldStar, etc... do your VPP's accrue at the same increased rate as your FPPs?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, VPPs always accrue at the same rate and my understanding is that you must always accumulate 10,000 VPPs on a monthly basis (FPPs at the normal rate, not the increased levels amount) to maintain Platinum status.

Once you hit 100,000 VPPs for the year, then you are qualfied for SuperNova for the year and I believe even if you then fall below the monthly requirement of 10,0000 VPPs you will still always be SuperNova for the year.

(Hope that made sense)

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It takes 3,000,000 FPPs to get a Porsche Cayman S, which retails for $60,000. It costs $600,000 in tournament entries to get 3,000,000 FPPs equating to 10% rakeback. However, the VIP program accelerates your acruement of FPPs. If you are a Gold Star member you get the equivalent of 20% rakeback, Platinum Star member 25%, Supernova 35%.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking about going for the Porsche and selling it immediately. I have 5K FPP over 2 months.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I got bored last night and decided to try and get some FPPs toward one of my five stacked up bonuses at Stars. I played 2 hours (a very long session for me) and got 37 FPPs.

Goodbye Stars

[/ QUOTE ]

What game were you playing? Must be $0.50-1.00 or lower. At $2-4 and up it accrues much faster.

Bobby

[/ QUOTE ]

I rarely play limit poker online. If I do play limit, I play stud. I was playing NL/50 & 100. It's a max $50 buy-in--not a mandatory $50 buy-in like on Party, which means a lot of short stacks, which is bad--but that's another story.

On party a raked pot is $1.00. On Stars I believe it has to be $5.00.

[/ QUOTE ]


All your numbers are wrong here.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Once you hit 100,000 VPPs for the year, then you are qualfied for SuperNova for the year and I believe even if you then fall below the monthly requirement of 10,0000 VPPs you will still always be SuperNova for the year.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you should play 100,000 raked hands in January to hit supernova status... and then only play all the freerolls for the rest of the year, to maximize the benefit! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I got bored last night and decided to try and get some FPPs toward one of my five stacked up bonuses at Stars. I played 2 hours (a very long session for me) and got 37 FPPs.

Goodbye Stars

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I checked this playing the $3/$6 SH game and it seem that I was accumulating FPPs at a rate of .625 per dealt hand. Assuming one 4 tables, that would be 300 hands times the .625 equals 188 FPPs per hour.

10,000 VPPs a month to qualify for Platinum divided by 188 FPPs (VPPS) per hour equals about 53 hours of play a month.

To reach SuperNova in 4 months, 100,000 VPPS divided by 188 FPPs per hour equals 531 hours divided by 17 weeks equals 31 hours a week.

If you can 8 table, cut all those hourly figures in half or if you played the same number of hours you would be at SuperNova level in 2 months.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you gettign both FPP's AND VIP points? Haven't had time to look through it. Someone who has please enlighten me a:)
Was just thinking that VIP points are slightly less worth than the current FPP's.

ToT

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and you're getting FPPs faster. The VIP points just move you up the VIP ladder.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Question here: Let's say you have accumulated the VIP points in the month, and when you spend them in the store or whatever, does that decrease your supernova status or is it just the accumulation of them that is needed? (ie will your vip points for the year fall if you spend them? or do you just need to acquire them?)

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Did you happen to notice the TVs and monitors available?

Although, I'm thinking it'll take me forever to get enough points since it's easier to get them in cash games and I mostly play tournaments :-)

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Just accumulation.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I got bored last night and decided to try and get some FPPs toward one of my five stacked up bonuses at Stars. I played 2 hours (a very long session for me) and got 37 FPPs.

Goodbye Stars

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I checked this playing the $3/$6 SH game and it seem that I was accumulating FPPs at a rate of .625 per dealt hand. Assuming one 4 tables, that would be 300 hands times the .625 equals 188 FPPs per hour.

10,000 VPPs a month to qualify for Platinum divided by 188 FPPs (VPPS) per hour equals about 53 hours of play a month.

To reach SuperNova in 4 months, 100,000 VPPS divided by 188 FPPs per hour equals 531 hours divided by 17 weeks equals 31 hours a week.

If you can 8 table, cut all those hourly figures in half or if you played the same number of hours you would be at SuperNova level in 2 months.

[/ QUOTE ]



I thought the max number of tables on Stars was 5. Has this changed?

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

It's kind of odd. It is much easier for a cash game player to earn FPPs than a tourney player but the rewards are heavily tilted towards tourney players.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

trash for low-mid NL/PL players
couldn't they at least keep track of fractional FPPs for pots with rake <$1

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Okay -

I'm just going by 'raked-hands' (as opposed to VRP's or whatever) because that's what it would be for me playing limit 6-max or full-ring.

First 1.5k raked hands = 1,500 fpp's
First 4k raked hands = 5,250 fpp's
First 10k raked hands = 17,250 fpp's
First 100k raked hands = 242,250 fpp's
First 150k raked hands = 417,250 fpp's
First 200k raked hands = 592,250 fpp's
First 220k raked hands = 662,250 fpp's


It looks like the WSOP main-event pacakge might be in the 650k fpp's range (because the $5k event is 310k fpp's) which would be about 220k raked-hands.


Obviously if you're going to do this the points add up faster after you get those first 100k hands out of the way.


So for about 150k-160k raked-hands you are off to Europe for an EPT event if you like (about a $6.5k-$6.9k package).

This is about 4.3 cents in value per raked-hand.
Little tight to try to get this in January anyway.

But you can think about Barcelona or Ireland next Sept or Oct if you want (assuming the EPT continues and they are a part of it).

If I just wanted to do the WSOP main-event and the PCA package in Jan 2007 (both around the 650k FPP range I'm guessing) then it will be 220k raked-hands approx for the WSOP main-event and then another 177k raked-hands after that for the PCA package.

That's 397k raked hands for about $24k (each package worth $12k I think??) which is about 6.04 cents in value per raked-hand.

Obviously this will be better if Stars cuts the Super-novas a break and lets them have the WSOP-ME at a better price than my projections.
Since they are playing there a freaking LOT I don't think it should be too much to ask to get 8-cents or more in value per raked-hand.


It's not mind-blowingly amazing...but if you are interested in participating in these things (as I am) it's not too terrible either.

And as O-Doyle pointed out you also get some value from the Supernova and VIP weekly and monthly tournaments.

Obviously if you aren't interested in these big events or the elctronic items there then it's not for you.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Other observations:

- This blows away Party's VIP club simply by it's organization and relative straight-forwardness.
There are no situations where you have to be home to get a phone-call or else you won't get your offer fo rthat month.
And I certainly can't imagine that stars would reneg on any of their offers as happened to so many Party VIP's who played hard for a whole month and then came away with less than they expected and were told.

Whatever value there is can be seen for yourself and there is zero guess-work to that end (except for the fact that they haven't posted FPP prices for the WSOP-ME or PCA yet).

It's not something they are just making up as they go along (as seems to be the case with Party).

Party has been giving excuses for about 3 months now that their VIP club is still in it's infancy and you will have to give them time to develop it and work out the kinks.
Well...Stars VIP club hasn't even started yet and it's already better organized than that sillyness over at Party.

"We'll have an offer for you in a few days."
"Your December offers are coming soon."
etc etc etc.

there is no run-around trying to get a hold of them, "please let me in your VIP club."
Stars tells you directly up front how much you need to play.


If there was just a bit more value to it I'd say Stars' was superior in every way.
But major tournament packages where one only gets 4-6 cents per raked-hand in value is not quite the value I was hoping for.
I think for that kind of high-volume where you aren't even getting cash back (just tourney packages or whatever) one should get a little more.


O-Doyle went to the WSOP ME for 120k hands on a different site (didn't even have to be raked-hands as I recall) and I think that's a pretty reasonable value.

On Stars it's 160k raked-hands just to get a $6.9k EPT package which is certainly not an exceptional value.


I was getting 4-cents per raked-hand with my deal over at Party-VIP and that was straight-up cash (back when they were actually giving cash-offers...not sure if that will be happening again or not...you can never tell over there).


But, I do appreciate the ability to at least SEE what kind of value I'm getting ahead of time and not have to guess so much as one does at Party.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A lot faster? Any idea how much, because I am almost at 300 BBs for 2/4 and will hopefully make it there by mid to late January. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Significantly faster. At 1/2 the pot needs to be $15 (7.5 BB) to get one FPP, at 2/4 and up it needs to be $20 (5 BB for 2/4, 3.333 BB for 3/6, etc.) So obviously you're gonna get a lot more FPPs.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

trying to earn fpp's at 1/2 limit or NL-$50 is going to be pretty pointless.

not so completely terrible as far as clearing bonuses if you are willing to sit there and grind it out...but you're just not playing very high obviously and therefore don't get many FPP's

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Anytime now you whores can stop hijacking my thread and answer my question [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I don't mind, but if possible, can someone analyze the difference between .5/1 NL, 1/2 NL & 1/2 limit as far as earning FPP's. I only have "data" for .5/1 NL and as I said, it would take around 43,000 hands to get 10,000 FPP's.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
That's 397k raked hands for about $24k (each package worth $12k I think??) which is about 6.04 cents in value per raked-hand.

Obviously this will be better if Stars cuts the Super-novas a break and lets them have the WSOP-ME at a better price than my projections.
Since they are playing there a freaking LOT I don't think it should be too much to ask to get 8-cents or more in value per raked-hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree... I think they should give you double the FPP's if the rake hits $2, triple at $3 (for the hand -- similar to how you earn FPP's at Full Tilt). Players who generate $2-$3 rake per hand rewarded faster than those who only generate $1 per hand.

I was really looking forward to this programs but am a little bummed by the enormous amount of FPP's needed. My rakeback programs definitely beat the socks of this VIP program (and there I'm getting pure cash, at Stars they are also getting the publicity of me wearing their logowear and representing their site if I manage to do well in a tourney). If the gap was a little closer I'd definitely switch all of my play to Stars.

I will definitely increase my play at Stars but I was hoping to compeletely move to Stars.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

I wonder if the stars vip offer would be enough to lure a lot of the high volume players away from party. As it stands now it's miles ahead of party (if you're not getting rakeback).

I'm waiting to see how party responds, if at all. If they do nothing than I can't wait to move my all my play over to stars. I've been looking to get away from party a looong time now. Party has bar none the worst customer service experiences I have ever received, their vip program is a joke.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Ok, going through the numbers again and it looks like the stars vip program is very underwhelming. I should've known because I didn't expect much to be honest.

I can't see how this would be enough to lure the high volume players over. There's better choices out there with rakebacks and it's hard to justify moving all your play over to stars with what they have to offer especially when you can get cash back instead of useless items like TVs and ipods that I don't need. At least it's a step in the right direction, still better than party. Hopefully this will get more ring game action going, we'll see how the next few months transpire.
Sometimes as poker players we get spoiled with all the great offers available. A few years ago I would've jumped all over this vip thing but now with so much competition and better offers out there, it's not even good enough to get me out of bed. This is a great time to be a poker player.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]


O-Doyle went to the WSOP ME for 120k hands on a different site (didn't even have to be raked-hands as I recall) and I think that's a pretty reasonable value.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Bob,

That was actually an exceptional value that True Poker offered, 10 cents a hand with no limitation on what limit I had to play. True Poker actually lost money on just my direct hands because probably a good third of my play was .50/1.00 and $ 25 NL. True told me that my rake did not even cover the cost and I totally believe it. There is no way a poker site could offer this again in the future.

However, those hands had to be played in basically a six week time period, and from my memory, I believe it was in the neighborhood of 50 plus hours a week and that was on top of a full time job. The value to True was in the promotional value of what I did. It did drive business to their site and got them alot of attention for a two month period. This made offering such a deal to one player reasonable, but to offer this same deal to 10, 20 or 10,000 players would be a losing proposition for any poker site. I would be stunned that any poker site (other than a start up site would ever offer this again.)



More thoughts about the free rolls:

I think alot of players are missing the value that PokerStars are putting out there in free rolls. I perceive it to be very high.

If your SuperNova you could play in the following free rolls:

12 $ 100,000 free rolls (monthly)

52 $ 2,500 free rolls (weekly)

52 $ 5,000 free rolls (weekly)

52 $ 7,500 free rolls (weekly)

52 $ 10,000 free rolls (weekly)*

(These actually get $ 2,000 added every month which would add another $ 288,000 in prize money.)

This is a total of $ 2,788,000 in free roll money. Now this is an insane amount of tournies to play, so once you hit SuperNova, you may decide to pass on the $ 2,500 &
$ 5,000 free rolls. You are still playing in tournies for
$ 2,398,000 in total prize money if you skip these.

If these tournies pay out alot of places in a flat manner, (what I would prefer) the chances of cashing in these things may be as high as 1 in 3. (Especially the SuperNova tournies which will not have nearly as many players, maybe as good as 1 in 2,1 in a 2.5 chance to cash)

Lets just take this assumption, throwing out the $2,500 & $ 5,000 free rolls, that an average payout on these tournies would be $ 150.00 You would play in a total of 118 tournies, placing in a third of them, (assuming you are just an average player) for a total of approximately 40 cashes for $ 6,000 in tourney free roll cashes.

Farfetched, I don't think so, especially if there is a flat payout system in these tournies.

Far fetched, I don't think so, if they have flat payouts, I think this would be a conservative estimate to be made if you are just an average tourney player.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

I only saw the $10k weekly and $100k monthly freerolls.

didn't look at all the other freerolls for silver and gold which obviously has some extra value also (although probably not a lot...i can very easily see 2500 players in the $2500 freeroll so that would be only $1 of value).


I doubt they will pay super-flat though (unfortunately).
I expect it to be the same as their typical pay-out structure for all of their other tournaments which would be to the top 10%.

since we don't know what the pay-out structure would be for the freerolls it's probably not worth speculating.

The $10k freerolls for supernova players might be around 100 players or so for $100 in value per entry.
Obviously it's more value if there are fewer players and/or some of the players just don't plain show-up (which strikes me as likely...happens a lot in freerolls).


I think ODoyle makes some good points regarding the value involved here.
Obviously $0.10 per hand (not raked-hand) that he got playing really small levels at times on True was an exceptional value.


However...it is correct as others have indicated that the higher-stakes players don't get nearly as much value out of Stars since a $1 raked-hand is worth the same as a $3 raked-hand.

And it is also true that it's not direct cash which is a bother for some people (not as much for me really...plenty in the store to interest me...including the big events).

Plus...my estimations on the WSOP ME might have been low.
If they charge 700k FPP's or more then there's even less value obviously.


I still haven't fully decided how much I will be participating in this program.
If it was just a LITTLE bit more value that might be enough to do it for me.

As it is, you can certainly get more in direct-cash from other sites of course...and we don't know if this program will attract a ton of fishy players to Stars (to chase after these prizes also) or if it will only make the games tougher.



One other aspect of the Stars program....I expect that they will continue to do their 20% for $120 reloads every 2 mths or so (one can only hope).
This obviously adds extra value as you hanging out clearing away the FPP's.
Not necessary to figure out if the bonus comes out of your MGR or anything like that.


I'm not totally running-away from it yet.
It's still possible that some, or even most/all of my play will head over to Stars based on this program.

But the overall value for the prizes being slightly disappointing means there is also the chance I don't do any of this at all.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

One other type of trade that could possibly happen, although not easily done, is of course allowing some player to use your account for a large buy in Pokerstars event (WCOOP or the big weekly tournaments), which you buy using FPPs, in trade for cash/W$/T$ at a discounted rate.

This of course is illegal, but step higher freerolls on Party have been traded in this manner.

You can still use your FPPs to buy into satellites for the weekly events, (and now that you can earn them at a higher rate, they become even more valuble), and then unregister for the T$.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

we are assuming that the ticket that you get for the higher events allows you to unregister for the T$.
But we don't know if they are giving some sort of a 'different' type of ticket that you can't trade in for T$.
It's uncertain and we shouldn't assume that it is the same as we it always has been