Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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"Of the 10% remaining, it only takes .1% of them with programming knowledge to decide to sniff the IP packets and write a program that mines on a and displays status on a separate system."

if this is actually possible I'm never playing online poker again. It almost certainly isn't..

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Possible? Yea anything is possible. Doable in our lifetime, yea probably. Worth the effort, not likely.

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well you're picking nits. It isn't possible now, and if it ever is I quit online poker. I'd lay very long odds no poker player is going to pull this off. if it becomes possible you can expect online poker to completely disappear.

while we're nitpicking "not likely" is understatement of the month.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Of the 10% remaining, it only takes .1% of them with programming knowledge to decide to sniff the IP packets and write a program that mines on a and displays status on a separate system."

if this is actually possible I'm never playing online poker again. It almost certainly isn't..

[/ QUOTE ]

Possible? Yea anything is possible. Doable in our lifetime, yea probably. Worth the effort, not likely.

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Christ, it's trivial for anyone with IP traffic knowledge (and there's plenty). There are packet sniffers freely available.


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it's encrypted already. good luck dude.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Of the 10% remaining, it only takes .1% of them with programming knowledge to decide to sniff the IP packets and write a program that mines on a and displays status on a separate system."

if this is actually possible I'm never playing online poker again. It almost certainly isn't..

[/ QUOTE ]

Possible? Yea anything is possible. Doable in our lifetime, yea probably. Worth the effort, not likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Christ, it's trivial for anyone with IP traffic knowledge (and there's plenty). There are packet sniffers freely available.

You simply have a system A watch traffic on the network and datamine. You play on system B on the same network. You know the reason your boss could track EVERY thing you do on the web at work? Because all that info flies over the network. It's not like you have some sort of private line for your data.

God awful trivial. Again, you just need ONE motivated engineer to figure out the packet structure. He then just sells/gives the app to everyone else just like the guy that made PokerTracker did.

Then you get the arms race of Party encrypting packets, rotating keys, etc, and we'll see if the datamining engineers want to try to keep up with it.

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You guys realize that the network traffic between the poker clients and their servers is encrypted right? It's not as "trivial" as you might think.

There's a reason why your credit card information is safe when you submit it over a secure connection. This stuff isn't easy to crack, even if you have access to the network packets.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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the current version of the beta does not save observed hands to the local drive and doesn't give the play by play in the chat box - so, yes it appears to be true.

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Yeah, the CURRENT version of the BETA does not but who's to say the final realease won't? Maybe the programmers released the BETA before they coded in the HH lines. Maybe they left out the HH download capability in the BETA in case there was some bug that f'ed up your hard drive. Has anyone seen a final release of any software that was unchanged from the BETA? Doubtful. So Chicken Little, the sky may not be falling after all - but only time will tell.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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[ QUOTE ]
the current version of the beta does not save observed hands to the local drive and doesn't give the play by play in the chat box - so, yes it appears to be true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the CURRENT version of the BETA does not but who's to say the final realease won't? Maybe the programmers released the BETA before they coded in the HH lines. Maybe they left out the HH download capability in the BETA in case there was some bug that f'ed up your hard drive. Has anyone seen a final release of any software that was unchanged from the BETA? Doubtful. So Chicken Little, the sky may not be falling after all - but only time will tell.

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This is true, and because it's a beta I have not spent much time trying to find out why PA Hud doesn't work perfectly with the new beta. They may end up changing things before the final version and I don't have enough time available to go wasting it.

However, because of Party's determination in destroying any services that offer shared hand history data, it's very likely that this feature is intentional and will be the same in the final version.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

I data mine all tables before I sit down but probably won't miss it too much if it's similar to what AP now has.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Of the 10% remaining, it only takes .1% of them with programming knowledge to decide to sniff the IP packets and write a program that mines on a and displays status on a separate system."

if this is actually possible I'm never playing online poker again. It almost certainly isn't..

[/ QUOTE ]

Possible? Yea anything is possible. Doable in our lifetime, yea probably. Worth the effort, not likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Christ, it's trivial for anyone with IP traffic knowledge (and there's plenty). There are packet sniffers freely available.

You simply have a system A watch traffic on the network and datamine. You play on system B on the same network. You know the reason your boss could track EVERY thing you do on the web at work? Because all that info flies over the network. It's not like you have some sort of private line for your data.

God awful trivial. Again, you just need ONE motivated engineer to figure out the packet structure. He then just sells/gives the app to everyone else just like the guy that made PokerTracker did.

Then you get the arms race of Party encrypting packets, rotating keys, etc, and we'll see if the datamining engineers want to try to keep up with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys realize that the network traffic between the poker clients and their servers is encrypted right? It's not as "trivial" as you might think.

There's a reason why your credit card information is safe when you submit it over a secure connection. This stuff isn't easy to crack, even if you have access to the network packets.

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It's not really difficult either, just time consuming. But just as you state, that's not why your credit card is secure. In a routed network you only have access to your own packets anyway. In order to packet sniff the masses for credit cards you have to hack your way into a router on an ISP's network (or something similar) before you can even start trying to decrypt anything. And most ISP's worth doing this to are pretty good at preventing it. Good enough to send hackers looking somewhere easier - like some 2nd or 3rd tier ecom site's customer database for instance.

You have all the access to your OWN packets you could possibly want or need which is what the poster who started this all really meant IMO - not sniffing OTHER people's packets, but the ones that were legitimately sent to you.

In any event, image recognition would be easier anyway, particularly since you can replace the images of the cards with something easy to recognize as someone else already pointed out.

And a second system is hardly necessary. Virtual PC software is readily available.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the current version of the beta does not save observed hands to the local drive and doesn't give the play by play in the chat box - so, yes it appears to be true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the CURRENT version of the BETA does not but who's to say the final realease won't? Maybe the programmers released the BETA before they coded in the HH lines. Maybe they left out the HH download capability in the BETA in case there was some bug that f'ed up your hard drive. Has anyone seen a final release of any software that was unchanged from the BETA? Doubtful. So Chicken Little, the sky may not be falling after all - but only time will tell.

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This is their response to an email I sent them regarding the beta:

"Dear Player,

With reference to your mail please be informed that a observer player cannot save hand histories unless and until you take a seat at a table.

Such a feature will not be available in future."

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

This is rediculous. PT software, and mining, in the hands of good players, confer a rediculous advantage.

For example, in a $600 NL I was playing, a very good player that I will not name, called my CR all in with a QJ high board, on the turn, with 55, because of my VPIP and PFR statistics.

I think its unfair that, essentially, anyone that wants to play high stakes and not get crushed needs to set up 2 computers, screen scraping software, PT datamining, etc. - its just stupid. I say ban it all.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

I anticipate trying some other sites.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

I am datamining with Partybeta and have been for the last couple of weeks. I had to reconfigure pokertracker a little to make it work, but nothing special.
Did they release a more recent update of the beta that prevents this or do you all just have bad information???

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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I am datamining with Partybeta and have been for the last couple of weeks. I had to reconfigure pokertracker a little to make it work, but nothing special.
Did they release a more recent update of the beta that prevents this or do you all just have bad information???

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Are you datamining observed hands or merely using PT to record your own play at tables? PT will continue to work to record your own play, but reportedly does not permit tracking observed hands at the beta.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am datamining with Partybeta and have been for the last couple of weeks. I had to reconfigure pokertracker a little to make it work, but nothing special.
Did they release a more recent update of the beta that prevents this or do you all just have bad information???

[/ QUOTE ]

You are using the older beta.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

Wynton,

I think there are two versions of the beta floating around. I downloaded on the first couple of days, and I'm definitely getting the play-by-play in the chat window and hhf files.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am datamining with Partybeta and have been for the last couple of weeks. I had to reconfigure pokertracker a little to make it work, but nothing special.
Did they release a more recent update of the beta that prevents this or do you all just have bad information???

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You are using the older beta.

[/ QUOTE ]

That explains it. I hope I can keep using it.... forever.
I'll trade the crashes every 4 hours for the ability to datamine (and resize tables).

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Dear Player,

With reference to your mail please be informed that a observer player cannot save hand histories unless and until you take a seat at a table.

Such a feature will not be available in future."

[/ QUOTE ]

How does this company stay in business? Morons!

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is rediculous. PT software, and mining, in the hands of good players, confer a rediculous advantage.

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Good players confer unto themselves a large portion of the advantage. PT doesn't make good players better, it makes them more efficient.

In a B&M, it's easy to focus on one table. PT and PAHud help internet players get the same loose/tight-passive/aggressive reads that they would get without it at one table. It facilitates multi-table play.

[ QUOTE ]
For example, in a $600 NL I was playing, a very good player that I will not name, called my CR all in with a QJ high board, on the turn, with 55, because of my VPIP and PFR statistics.

[/ QUOTE ]
In a post I did earlier in the year (software forum), it was seen that the vast majority who responded to the poll used primarily VPIP, PFR, and AGG and not much else. I don't use much more than that myself on a regular basis. I do spend an hour or two each day studying the play of a regular opponent. A read like this doesn't come from VPIP and PFR, either, but you already knew that.

It might help if you didn't call all-in raises with unimproved JT overcards either.

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I think its unfair that, essentially, anyone that wants to play high stakes and not get crushed needs to set up 2 computers, screen scraping software, PT datamining, etc. - its just stupid. I say ban it all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or learn how to use the tools that are availible.
Or learn to play a poker variant that isn't supported by PT.
Or play at a site that isn't supported by PT.
Or play in a B&M casino.
Or play according to your opponent, and not dogmatically.

That's all I got. Another 20 minutes down the drain. Posting is generally -EV, I'm coming to consider. Oh, VTW, who cares what Party does? As long as it doesn't go back to e-mailed hand histories, I'm OK with it.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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How does this company stay in business? Morons!

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Seriously? PokerRoom doesn't save observed hand histories either, and they are doing pretty well.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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How does this company stay in business? Morons!

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? PokerRoom doesn't save observed hand histories either, and they are doing pretty well.

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- you didn't get it. try parsing the quoted email one more time

- pokerroom isn't "doing pretty well" compared to party and it isn't close

- you can get pokerroom hand histories without even observing

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

I may be wrong, but I think he was referencing their use of the English language [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]