Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

I suppose those running bad would be less likely to continue.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

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This is silly logic. Shouldn't there be just as many people who can make that much EV-wise but are running bad as those who are running good?

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i talked to schneids...his reasoning is as follows:

include only those that can (expect to) and (actually) do make over X amt /year.

his memorable quotation to me was "2p2 comprises a bigger portion of the winning players than you're willing to give credit for"

that said, im still torn b/c 200 seems low and high at the same time (PS, we're talking imo about LIMIT and NL ring game holdem players imo...which shouldn't change much b/c your expectation in the tourney circuit isn't gunna be 100k for the most part)

Barron

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

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another 200 btwn 100k-200k

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i think this # is significantly higher

Barron

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There is no way in hell this is close to correct. Think of it this ay. Any solid full time pro playing 20-40 limit or higher, 5-10 NL or higher, or $200 SNG's or higher is pulling this in, and there are A LOT more than 200 of these ppl. Also, many players playing lower could consistnetly make over 100k/ year. Now add the good recreactional players who still pull in several hunred and hour, and the figure simply cannot be that low.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

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another 200 btwn 100k-200k

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whaaaa?

I feel like there are 200 people from 2+2 that make $100K+ a year

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Name 10...you can't can you...

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Seriously?

Schnieds, BK, El Diablo, KKF, Strassa, FSU PLayer, Yeti, Nikkla, Dcifer, Stox, Enon, Steve G, Daryn, Me, CDC, Josh, etc... there are tons

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

Schneids,

At 30hrs/week, you gotta make $60-65/hr to make $100k. You really think less than 300 fullish-time online players are averaging over $60/hr?

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

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another 200 btwn 100k-200k

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whaaaa?

I feel like there are 200 people from 2+2 that make $100K+ a year

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Name 10...you can't can you...

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Seriously?

Schnieds, BK, El Diablo, KKF, Strassa, FSU PLayer, Yeti, Nikkla, Dcifer, Stox, Enon, Steve G, Daryn, Me, CDC, Josh, etc... there are tons

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how could you name nikla without his life partner lakerman [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

I didn't know lakerman was 2+2?

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

Laziness and tedium makes 30 hr/wk an unlikely expectation of most online pros, who are just that because of not liking normal lifestyle expectations. 30hrs/week lmao. Maybe I'll revise my guess to 300-350.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

100k is easy. i could name a ubergiganticload of people from twoplustwo who easily have $100/hr+ winrates. i could name many with $200/hr+ winrates. many with much higher than that still. whether they put the proper hours in is their own prerogative, but many do. 200 100k winners is way way too low.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

The hourly rates are there for big years, but not many can grind away for that long consistently.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

But there are also some with lower winrates who manage to log a ton of hours and make it to $100k.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

And there's James282 who jacks 160k in a month 'dabbling' w/ NL.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

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5-10 ppl over 1M a year.

20 btwn 500k-1M

another 30 btwn 200k-500k

another 200 btwn 100k-200k


That'd be my guess if you held a gun to my head and made me estimate based on my knowledge of others.

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I would estimate this x 2.0

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I considered that actually but decided a lot of the current winners are lottery winners who are outdoing their expectation, and what I have here are exactly how many are expected to EV-wise.

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Presumably, though, there are a fair number of players whose yearly EV is, say, $160K. But they will have a good chance of earning less than $150K in a given year.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

I think the 200 number Schneids threw out is significantly off. By a factor of 5-10x.

Don't forget to think about the SNG and PLO players. Both are pretty popular nowadays and there are certainly more than a few making 100k+ at those games.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

TeddyFBI, JJProdigy

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

I did a post a long time ago asking how much money people made overall in their career, there were only like 6 or so people who said over 100k I believe... majority were under 30k

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

I agree.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

it's hard to say from the 2+2 community who's pullin g down big bucks. i know it ain't me. i'm with the guy trying to make enough for the mountain dew at the quicke mart.

in "ace on the river" barry g. says that playing online at the 150-300 level for 40 hours a sweek with a marginal advantage over the game(i think he said 2%advantage) you should make $150k per MONTH! he said that's what he would expect from a 'pro' that played at the highest stakes online. that puts you at $1.8 million a year.

that seems like crazy talk, but he did the numbers to back it up. he also said that wasn't good enough for him so he has to play live so he can make some real cash.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

I guess it's a good question but the real question has to be, How much money can you make next year online? Personally for myself I'm still new, very new, less than 8 months playing No Limit, so I'll be happy if I break even next year, possibly if I earn up to $10,000 maybe.

I think it is also a bad idea to say oh there is a guy out there that makes 4 million a year online, so I can too. LeBron James was 19 years old when he entered the NBA and started dominating that by no means 19 year old high school basketball players should think they can do the same. Same as you can't look at Gus Hansen and say look how he's able to play anything at anytime and beat up on people with 7,2 I and you can't do it because we do not possess his skill set when it comes to poker. We have to understand ourselves, what our strengths and weaknesses are and formulate a goal based on that.

In the end the sky is the limit. I heard Chris "Jesus" Ferguson say one time that he's playing better poker now than ever before in his life and didn't he win the WSOP in 2000 or come damn close? My point is dedication, love for the game, and consistently studying hands and situations is what will make you better. I don't think 10 years ago anyone asking how much can you make in a year at poker, would of dreamed it would be over $10 million, so who knows? Can't control that, can only control how much better you become as a player.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

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I think the 200 number Schneids threw out is significantly off. By a factor of 5-10x.

Don't forget to think about the SNG and PLO players. Both are pretty popular nowadays and there are certainly more than a few making 100k+ at those games.

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I think Schneids is pretty much on the money. The site I'm most familiar with is Pokerstars, which happens to be one of the biggest. From what I've seen, there can't be many more than 100 people making "real" money on that site.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

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it's hard to say from the 2+2 community who's pullin g down big bucks. i know it ain't me. i'm with the guy trying to make enough for the mountain dew at the quicke mart.

in "ace on the river" barry g. says that playing online at the 150-300 level for 40 hours a sweek with a marginal advantage over the game(i think he said 2%advantage) you should make $150k per MONTH! he said that's what he would expect from a 'pro' that played at the highest stakes online. that puts you at $1.8 million a year.

that seems like crazy talk, but he did the numbers to back it up. he also said that wasn't good enough for him so he has to play live so he can make some real cash.

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The problem is these games don't even run all the time, and it's very difficult to put in 40 hours a week at these limits. That said, the top top players who put in 40 hours a week are definity going to make over a million a year. Hell, putting 40 hours a week you might be able to pull a million in the party 2k games.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

Schneids,

You have me curious now. Among your group of online poker pro friends, the average hours per week is less than 30? Really? What do you think the average hours per week across all winning online poker pros is?

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

20-30.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

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Schneids,

You have me curious now. Among your group of online poker pro friends, the average hours per week is less than 30? Really? What do you think the average hours per week across all winning online poker pros is?

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Other than james, I play the most and I average about 25 hours per week. Schneids is lucky to play 25 hours per MONTH.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

I really cannot conclusively speak because I do not talk to most of my "poker friends" about actual poker often. Plus, maybe it is different with the online pros who are in the 3/6 to 10/20 multitabling type range and they are better at putting in hours, but from my observations the ones who play higher take more frequent breaks and play less because of the $$ swings being more.

A safe estimate is most are in the 12-25hrs/wk range. And I do play more than 25hrs/mo even during the school year, BK lies.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

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Schneids,

You have me curious now. Among your group of online poker pro friends, the average hours per week is less than 30? Really? What do you think the average hours per week across all winning online poker pros is?

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I averaged 60+ hrs per week last month. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

I probably average close to 50hrs/week during the winter months and 30 during the summer.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

Schneids to me your numbers look way off. I'd think there are closer to 1000 making 100k/yr. I also think most professionals put in over 25/hours week and many by a long shot.

-Jason

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

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Schneids,

You have me curious now. Among your group of online poker pro friends, the average hours per week is less than 30? Really? What do you think the average hours per week across all winning online poker pros is?

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Other than james, I play the most and I average about 25 hours per week. Schneids is lucky to play 25 hours per MONTH.

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hahaha..schneids hates mani.

Barron

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

yes don't forget about the PLO omaha players. There are quite a few who are easily pulling in over 100K playing 2/4-10/20 online.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

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Schneids,

You have me curious now. Among your group of online poker pro friends, the average hours per week is less than 30? Really? What do you think the average hours per week across all winning online poker pros is?

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This is a bad example. Guys like BK, Scenids, James etc... have very well balanced lives, while many full time pros have a lot less better things to do with their time then play shittons of hours. Also, there might just be some people who are really motivated nd just don't sleep in favor of playing poker even though they aren't full time players. I think most full time pros average over 25 hrs/week

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

" while many full time pros have a lot less better things to do with their time then play shittons of hours."


Yes...I agree with this.


think of the tourney leader types on Stars.

What would you think is the number of people who put in more than 50 hours per week on Party or Stars??
I bet it's pretty high.

While layness and the inability to get in the hours is an issue for some....others are simply addicted to this stuff and put in 50 or 60 hours or more per week.

Pretty pathetic? Yeah, maybe. That's a LOT of hours.
But they are definitely people who are doing this.


I think that Schneids was correct we he said perhaps he should have made the cut-off $150k instead of $100k THEN saying 200 players might be not too far off.


but $100k isn't THAT far-fetched for a lot of players.

Lets just look at 25 hours a week though:

1250 hours per year (50 wks).
So that would be $80/hr for $100k.


If you can make a little more than 1BB/hr per table while 8-tabling 3/6 then that's $40/hr.
This might only be a win-rate of 1.3BB/100 really.

Tack on some rake-back and bonuses for perhaps another $25/hr (that's just another $3/hr per table for rake-back) and you're most of the way there to $100k a year.

And this is just 25 hours per week at 3/6 for a $65/hr rate for $80k!!
Up this to 31 hours and you have your $100k.


As Sklansky mentions in SSHE...making $50k a yr at 3/6 is not a big deal.
Thus making $100k/yr at 5/10 isn't so impossible either. And if you can 8-table 3/6 then it's even do-able down that low too.


I think there are plenty of disciplined players with good rake-back deals who are pulling in close to that $100k range.
but maybe most of these are really in the $75k-$90k range and I'm just generously rounding up for them.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

If I can make >$100/year then there must be thousands, no...bazILLIONS more. Seriously, there are way way way more than 200 of us. I would say 200 make >$500k.

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

They are also going to have dificulty building their bankrolls to the point where they can consistantly play high enough stakes to be able to earn that much money (barring those people who play 600,000 5-10 sh hands a year).

Re: How much $$ do the top online players earn?
 

i feel confident in saying im going to make over 100k in my first year of serious online play... with a large majority of that time spent playing 100 nl. Think about it.... someone playing 100 nl beating it for 7bb/100 can make 5600 a month at 40,000 hands for the month. This can be done 4 tabling for 3-4 hours a day. With rakeback that comes out to about ~7000 a month for 84k on the year. Someone just beating 100 nl can almost make 100k a year, surely theres more than 1000 people beating 200nl and higher (or the limit equivalent) across all the poker sites online.