Re: New party \"Speed\" sngs
 

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The average length is about the same. The early rounds go quicker and the late rounds take longer. This is to our advantage because we have such a bigger edge late with all of our ICM knowledge.

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This made me laugh.

Re: New party \"Speed\" sngs
 

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The average length is about the same. The early rounds go quicker and the late rounds take longer. This is to our advantage because we have such a bigger edge late with all of our ICM knowledge.

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This made me laugh.

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Isn't it kind of true?

Re: New party \"Speed\" sngs
 

It is true but ROI will still be lower. It's whether the $/hr would make up for it. Expect much increase in variance however.

Re: New party \"Speed\" sngs
 

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It is true but ROI will still be lower. It's whether the $/hr would make up for it. Expect much increase in variance however.

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why will ROI be lower? why will variance be increased a lot?

I feel under-edumacated [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: New party \"Speed\" sngs
 

Well it's quite obvious really, even though we don't play much in the first few levels we still accumulate chips there overall (which is obvious really), by outplaying people post flop and generally picking up pots. In a speed tournament your chances for doing this will be lessened because you'll see less hands in the first few levels, therefore these chips won't be as easily accessible, and therefore you'll be going into the pushbot mode with overall fewer chips than the normal SNGs. This of course will add to variance and lower ROI by design.

Re: New party \"Speed\" sngs
 

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Well it's quite obvious really, even though we don't play much in the first few levels we still accumulate chips there overall (which is obvious really), by outplaying people post flop and generally picking up pots. In a speed tournament your chances for doing this will be lessened because you'll see less hands in the first few levels, therefore these chips won't be as easily accessible, and therefore you'll be going into the pushbot mode with overall fewer chips than the normal SNGs. This of course will add to variance and lower ROI by design.

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But won't we more than make up for this by picking up chips 4 and 5 handed by pushing as dictated by ICM? In other words, we accumulate MORE chips than our non-push-happy opponents, and since we get to the bubble/ 5-handed play quicker (which lasts longer), we have even more time to make correct pushes and get lots of chips.

Where's the hole in my logic (because there has to be one...)

Re: New party \"Speed\" sngs
 

Well maybe but I really don't think so. The early stages are more important than you think for accumulating chips. Still I guess only time will tell.

Of course the other (major IMO) factor is you will have less reads on players, and therefore less idea what they will call pushes with, especially on the bubble. This will definitely hurt your equity as well.

Re: New party \"Speed\" sngs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well it's quite obvious really, even though we don't play much in the first few levels we still accumulate chips there overall (which is obvious really), by outplaying people post flop and generally picking up pots. In a speed tournament your chances for doing this will be lessened because you'll see less hands in the first few levels, therefore these chips won't be as easily accessible, and therefore you'll be going into the pushbot mode with overall fewer chips than the normal SNGs. This of course will add to variance and lower ROI by design.

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This is false. The only thing that significantly affects variance in a STT is payout structure. The ROI part is true though, it should drop.

Re: New party \"Speed\" sngs
 

People on 2+2 use variance as short of a shorthand for "how large will bankroll swings be for a given percentile winner?". Lower ROI->biggger downswings->more "variance". And this structure would appear to cause lower ROI.

Re: New party \"Speed\" sngs
 

Yeah that's what I meant, I mean I know the mathematical meaning of variance of course.