Re: curtains hand #5001: A9o in sb
 

cmon guys before you say PUSHING IS TERRIBLE at least do the math. Its unlikely to be less than break even. Its not my preferred play, but terrible is an absurd comment. Most sane calling standards make pushing slightly +EV or at least about break even if they start calling you with stuff like 33+44

Re: curtains hand #5001: A9o in sb
 

I didnt notice the two shorties, but pushing is most def not terrible... The play I hate most is raising a standard amount, you dont wanna play a pot against him OOP, and he may think KJ is good enough for a push here.

Re: curtains hand #5001: A9o in sb
 

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I would complete and try to keep the pot small postflop, perhaps even try to go for a free showdown. I think folding is ok also. I don't like raising here cos a loose big stack is quite likely to call preflop and also to call loosely on the flop once there are chips in the pot, so I risk losing a big chunk of my chips & FE or having to risk it all on a 2nd barrel when there are 2 short stacks around. On the other hand, unless I flop 2 pair, I'm not gonna be excited about playing a real big pot against the big stack with those 2 shorties hanging around. So when I hit I will often have to play cautiously & will win just a little.

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I like this one FWIW

Re: curtains hand #5001: A9o in sb
 

I'm not saying pushing is -ev, I'm just strongly in favour of raising here. If you have to get away from the pot you still have a good stack to work with, but the right flop sees you gain quite a few chips and maybe even double up. This then allows you to get into more postflop situations with bigstack, to give you a better chance to build an even larger stack and dominate the table.

This is all in my own opinion of course, so when I say pushing is terrible, I just mean I think that it is far from the best option.

Re: curtains hand #5001: A9o in sb
 

To be honest I think raising something like 250-300 is the worst possible option by a longshot.

Re: curtains hand #5001: A9o in sb
 

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To be honest I think raising something like 250-300 is the worst possible option by a longshot.

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yup for sure

Re: curtains hand #5001: A9o in sb
 

Fair enough, but could you both explain your reasoning, and what you think the best option would be?

I'd guess you don't want to ruin that nice stack you have, and that we might have to abandon alot of pots since we have little FE on the flop??

I also don't like bigstack having so many chips in my sb since it takes alot of FE from future steals (unless he's passive to pushes).

Re: curtains hand #5001: A9o in sb
 

I just dont want to create a big pot OOP against the biggest stack, when there are 2 shorties and Im in great position to make it ITM.

When I said it was the worst play by "far" I was kind of overdramatizing a bit.

Re: curtains hand #5001: A9o in sb
 

Without reading all the responses, I complete, and hope to see a flop. I don't want to invest too many chips at this point. If he raises, min-raises, whatever, I'm out. I've already invested too much.

Re: curtains hand #5001: A9o in sb
 

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I didnt notice the two shorties, but pushing is most def not terrible... The play I hate most is raising a standard amount, you dont wanna play a pot against him OOP, and he may think KJ is good enough for a push here.

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It isn't? I would think that as big stack with a small raise pushing with KJ would be ideal. How often would you expect your push to be called in that situation? You're also quite comfortable if you lose the hand. I don't see the downside.