Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?
 

Your reasoning for raising is my exact reasoning for not raising. When I see this hand, there are two things I want:
* I want to induce mistakes from my opponent
* I want to take this to showdown

If I raise and get 3-bet, not only has the opponent learned something about me hand, but now I might be scared away from taking this to showdown. So I'm at 0/2

If I raise he he calls, I've given him information and reduced his chances of sticking around to the end with a losing hand. 0/2

If I smooth call his flop bet, he has learned little about my hand and since I have showed no aggression, he will be more likely to take it to showdown.

I don't think this is weak just to sit back and let him bet here. Giving him a range of (JJ+,ATs+,AJo+), we are a 70/30 favorite, let him bet the hands we are losing to and let us minimize our losses when hero is behind. My goal for this hand would be to call the flop and get 1 or 2 BBs for both the turn and the river, no more and no less.

Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?
 

i like a turn raise. Funny, it seems like i am in the minority.

11 hands isn't a judgement of tightness, come on. that's not a sample. I would say call the flop, raise the turn and fold to a 3bet. If turn is called, bet a non-A river, check an A behind if checked to.

is this spewing? I hardly think so.

Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?
 

Good point. What happens if hero bets raises the turn to be "stop & goed" (yes, I am an English masta!). Do you call the river bet?

Wouldn't the number of bets put in be the same as pokergrader's line when we're ahead and we get a showdown? I suppose it's actually an extra bet since I'm assuming we bet on the river if checked to?

Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?
 

I hate any line that includes a fold in this hand. 11 hands doesn't tell us jack, and I'd just as soon treat this villain as an unknown.

I probably just raise the turn and call down if 3 bet.

Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good point. What happens if hero bets raises the turn to be "stop & goed" (yes, I am an English masta!). Do you call the river bet?

Wouldn't the number of bets put in be the same as pokergrader's line when we're ahead and we get a showdown?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its a tough decision, but against an unknown I would call.

It is also one of the reasons I like raising the river if you want to raise. If you raise the turn he can fold a worse hand and 3-bet a better one, forcing you to fold. If you raise the river, you can get that extra value from a final semi-bluff and fold to a 3-bet with even more ease than on the turn.

I feel like more often that not this hand goes something like this:

bet/call
bet/call
check/bet/call

With villian showing 88-QQ or AQ

Because if the hand goes like this:

bet/call
bet/call
bet/???

Now I am putting villian more squarly on the AK,KK-AA range and might just want to call the river. However, raise/fold also seems acceptable to me. I would like to see his cards though, because this hand is a hell of a lot easier to figure out with reads...

Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?
 

Yeah, your line makes sense since we don't know squat about the bad guy. He could have been getting really, really bad cards and may be looser than we think. We have no idea.

More or less I was trying to argue reasons for a flop raise since a lot of us auto raise with TPDK. With more of a read this could certainly be a better line, but we don't really know w/ 11 hands.

Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?
 

I haven't read the thread, so this advice may have already been given.

I call down and raise the river if an A doesn't fall. I can fold to a 3-bet there, he simply doesn't 3-bet here without a FH or a 2.

Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?
 

I think raising the turn allows him to get off the hands we're beating too easy, it looks like we slowplayed a monster. If we raise the flop his pocket pair will probably calldown incase we're bluffing. Raising the turn is only good if he has AQ/AJ and would've folded to the flop raise, or if he'll calldown with a pocketpair regardless.

To those saying raise the river, is he really betting with a worse hand all the way and calling a river raise >50% of the time?

Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?
 

[ QUOTE ]
To those saying raise the river, is he really betting with a worse hand all the way and calling a river raise >50% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Put yourself in villians shoes here with TT-QQ. Now imagine you're just slightly dumber.