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-   -   (rock) AA (hardplace) (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=397601)

SmileyEH 12-13-2005 05:54 PM

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
call

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you are the only one advocating for this, I think we'd all benefit from an explanation.

Gracias sir.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against most of villian's range calling is the thing he'd least like you to do. If he's semibluffing a big draw he either picks up the pot with a fold or 3bets all in with tons of FE and lots of equity when you raise. If he has a set he gets to 3bet you again. If he's bluffing, well you called and he can see whether he wants to bluff again. Obv a raise gets a fold right there, but its terrible against the rest of his hand range.
Obviously calling puts you to difficult decisions on later streets, but thats poker. Against villian's range of hands it's the most correct by the fundamental theory of poker.

-SmileyEH

Marlow 12-13-2005 05:57 PM

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 
Here's more reasoning:
I fold more because of the player than the flop texture. This player does not get out of line. Based on what I've seen, I also think that he's going to call or reraise just about any raise that I put in. There's no way that I can call another substantial turn lead with my hand. I'm positive that he's not backing down.
What really bothers me the most is this is EXACTLY the way he played when I busted him. In that case, I had QQ, and he was on a flush draw. This makes me think that he has me here. I think he wants his hand to look like a draw. But the beauty of his bet is that I have no idea if it’s a draw or a made hand. He has effectively stolen control of the hand.
Also, there’s a problem with a raise. If I’m raising for information, I’d rather not have to overbet the pot to do so. I believe that I’d need to overbet this pot to get any information at all. I reasoned that I didn’t want to put in another 160+ to “get information.” If he only calls, half his stack is in there and I’m pot committed anyway. So my thought was that a push is the only raise available to me.

But with that said, I'm not 100% convinced a raise isn't in order. If I had, I would have never posted the hand.

However, I don't think that folding is weak/tight because this is such a close call. Honestly, I’m not sure that there is any one line that makes a lot of money in the long run.

Thanks for all the feedback so far…

12-13-2005 06:05 PM

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 
I would advocate calling here (vs. raising, I would never just fold) as well. Since he's leading, let's not kid ourselves - he's going to at least call a pot-size raise (and could very well 3-bet it here). He's either leading with a hand that beats you or a hand that can improve (or 88-QQ, let him keep betting these!) So keep the pot small and just call. Then evaluate what the turn brings, and go from there. You don't want to play a huge pot with AA on that board, so there's no reason to build it up by raising this flop. You could conceivably just call him down on blank turn/blank river if he continues to bet. Or find a fold if the draw gets completed.

BobboFitos 12-13-2005 08:02 PM

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
call

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you are the only one advocating for this, I think we'd all benefit from an explanation.

Gracias sir.

[/ QUOTE ]

you have position

he wants you to raise or fold, so do neither.

normally (I) would not be as strong as aces raiisng my button

you know what cards are bad for the turn

his hand is still unclear, he's not a nit

your hand is still unclear

the pot isn't big

raising cant protect your hand

you have position

I dunno, this is an auto call, I just cant fathom any other flop play.

edit: I actually can fathom another flop play, and it's not folding


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