Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

Ok, I didn't think people were gonna take me seriously since this is the STT forum but I guess I will post for real.

The preflop raise IMO is good. Anyone who says it is horrible because he gives 3:1 odds to call does not understand the gap concept, the value of position, deception and most importantly bubble-play mentality. There are many instances in MTTs where it's right to fold even when getting great odds because of the chip situation, and for the BB this is one of them.

OP said slightly above min-raise was the table standard and WAS WORKING, so a button raise is +EV. If you disagree, GTFO of this thread.

On the flop, I think it's either between making a continuation bet or pushing. I personally would have pushed from the get-go but whatever. The way it played out, hero has a few options, depending on villain's plans:

-if villain plans to push the turn: Fold now.
-if villain can check the turn: Call the flop raise, push either the turn or river.

Like I said before, in the latter situation, villain is gonna need a really strong hand to call. That is all.

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

There have been quite a few posts out there saying that calling is an option here. Here is why I thought calling was not an option for me:
1) with 5000 in the pot, and villian left with only 2000 after his CR, the rest is going in on the turn.
2) How many good cards can fall on the turn, ie. will my hand ever get any stronger? Will I (likely) have an easier decision on the turn, or will I just be calling his turn all-in bc of pot odds.
3)If I'm gonna be forced to call an all in on the turn bc of pot odds, why not get the money in now, and force him to a decision on the 5% chance that he was completely bluffing.

With all of that said, I went all in, he called in a heartbeat (which i thought was bad...thought he had 88-99). He turns over 2c8c. I ran numbers in pokerstove, giving him credit for all PP's, and high club combos down to T9c, it was + EV for me to get all the money in. If i give him credit for flush draws this wacky, i have to get the money in, right?

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

[ QUOTE ]
With all of that said, I went all in, he called in a heartbeat (which i thought was bad...thought he had 88-99). He turns over 2c8c. I ran numbers in pokerstove, giving him credit for all PP's, and high club combos down to T9c, it was + EV for me to get all the money in. If i give him credit for flush draws this wacky, i have to get the money in, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Win or lose, your opponent made a TERRIBLE play.

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

uhhh... yeah, i was pretty confused. but its an interesting hand, i think, nonetheless. I was berated after the call for raising with that hand and then going all in with it, but i think its the correct play, and Pokerstove showed me that it was +EV on the range i was giving him, which was actually giving him too much credit. As i found that out after the fact, i was just glad that my gut/reasoning was on target.

He actually didnt catch a club, or 8, and was knocked out.

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

[ QUOTE ]


The preflop raise IMO is good. Anyone who says it is horrible because he gives 3:1 odds to call does not understand the gap concept, the value of position, deception and most importantly bubble-play mentality. There are many instances in MTTs where it's right to fold even when getting great odds because of the chip situation, and for the BB this is one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

The preflop raise is bad because of it's size. It's way too small, I'd make it 1500 here instead of 900, and folding is probably even better than that.

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

if I make it 1500 and the BB or SB moves in, i am pot committed with 74o. Folding is an option (probably best, altho id rather have 74o than A4o), certainly. Bet size has been addressed. 900 was table standard, blinds were high, it was an effective bet with any two, and i wanted to control the size of the pot. there is something to be said for bringing a knife to a knife fight. ie. why bet 1500 when 900 had been effective?

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

Well 900 is clearly not effective if he calls you with 82s, and you're insane to want 74o instead of A4o.