Re: Crappy hands you think are ahead on the flop....
 

If you read david's S. Snall stakes Holdem, you will see that he treats it as a Reverse implied odds situation. You may be FAR behind, and chances of someone completing a str8 are very high already. So yes, check and fold.

Re: Crappy hands you think are ahead on the flop....
 

my play has worstened to the point where if i have top pair with a 9 or better kicker, i believe i'm basically always in the lead.

It must be a very long one :)
 

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chances of someone completing a str8 are very high already

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The flop was 8-7-3.

What straight did he [already] complete ? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Crappy hands you think are ahead on the flop....
 

Chucky, keep in mind that having the best hand on the flop is no more valuable than having the best hand before the flop. All that matters in your analysis in the hand is how likely you are to have the best hand after the river. (Usually, if you have the best hand on the flop, you have a high chance of having the best hand after the river, so it's easy to forget which one is what matters.)

This is a hard spot to be in. I think I would check the flop, with the intention of either calling or folding to a bet from my left. (Usually folding, sometimes calling with my tainted 5-outer if I am closing the action and many people called the flop bet.) If there was a bet from my right, I would usually fold if there is an overcall, but consider raising if nobody else has yet called the bet.

While I think it is great that you are thinking about how to play these hands and that is good for your development, don't fret too much about these decisions at the table. The decisions here are close, and you simply aren't going to get a lot of EV (or lose a lot of EV) no matter what you do.

Re: Crappy hands you think are ahead on the flop....
 

Read the Reverse Implied Odds section in Small Stakes hold em, it talks about situations like this.

Reverse Implied Odds Exist when

1. You have a marginal made hand that may be best, but may not.
2. You have very few outs to improve.
3. You can easily be outdrawn if you are ahead

You also have to bear in mind that you are out of position against a large field.

Re: Crappy hands you think are ahead on the flop....
 

For my own info, if there were only one or two others in the pot post-flop, would trying to push out the others with either a check/raise or just a fairly large bet (in NL) be a good play? I don't really like the check/raise, because the odds are the other players are holding overcards, in which case they'd be happy to see a free card. I'm trying to learn the tight/agressive style of play, and wonder if this type of play fits that. By the way, I know I suck, so please don't just hammer me if this is a stupid play. I actually want to learn here. Thanks. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Crappy hands you think are ahead on the flop....
 

What is the position(s) of the limpers ?

Early ?

Middle ?

Late ?

One from each ?

*

In this instance their position matters alot.

Re: Crappy hands you think are ahead on the flop....
 

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open limp from middle position, three callers, SB completes and I check.

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Presumably all late position. Although I don't think there position matters as much as you think. In live 3/6 most of your opponents aren't adjusting there requirements based on position.

Re: Crappy hands you think are ahead on the flop....
 

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Presumably all late position. Although I don't think there position matters as much as you think. In live 3/6 most of your opponents aren't adjusting there requirements based on position.

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that's one of the really fast early ways to guage your opposition. do they call or play (could raise) alot of hands early to mid position? i mean, to all of us who think we're decent players, i think "power of position" and playing tight pre-flop are rules #1 & #2.

Re: Crappy hands you think are ahead on the flop....
 

I was referring to his follow-up question re. N-L with 1 or 2 callers.