Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

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With second pair on a scary board in a field of 6, this seems like a pretty bad place for a flop lead to me. I check-and-see here.

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I agree. SpicyMoose hasn't explained the reasons for a bet in the first place.

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Sorry for not explaining. Just because there are 5 opponents in our hand, doesn't mean that our second pair, almost certainly top kicker isn't good. Only a few hands beat us right now, and there are tons that don't. We are getting tons of value on our bet, and further more we get way more information if someone raises our bet, than if we just check and call. If we start checking and calling, it will be so much more difficult to know the correct situation on the turn. We probably will still be ahead, but if we try to bet or check raise there, if we are behind we will be paying pretty dearly. Finally, even if we are behind on the flop, we have a good pair, good kicker, and gutshot straight draw. We most probably have at least 6, if not more outs against someone if we are behind. Value!

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

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we get way more information if someone raises our bet, than if we just check and call. If we start checking and calling, it will be so much more difficult to know the correct situation on the turn.

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Spicy, this sounds to me like you're trying to bet for information...if we bet and get a few callers (which is by far the most likely outcome against LP players like this), we're just as clueless as we are on the flop. The only useful information you're saying we get is knowing we're beat if it we get raised, and even then we're paying a large fraction of a bet for it.

By checking-and-seeing, we still get to get away much more cheaply if it comes back raised to us, without the initial investment. Plus, we may get the opportunity to actually protect our hand on a drawy board if we have a chance to raise an LP autobettor.

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

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we get way more information if someone raises our bet, than if we just check and call. If we start checking and calling, it will be so much more difficult to know the correct situation on the turn.

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Spicy, this sounds to me like you're trying to bet for information...if we bet and get a few callers (which is by far the most likely outcome against LP players like this), we're just as clueless as we are on the flop. The only useful information you're saying we get is knowing we're beat if it we get raised, and even then we're paying a large fraction of a bet for it.

By checking-and-seeing, we still get to get away much more cheaply if it comes back raised to us, without the initial investment. Plus, we may get the opportunity to actually protect our hand on a drawy board if we have a chance to raise an LP autobettor.

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No. My primary reason for betting is for value. I just think an added benefit is that we do get more information when we bet than when we check. You cannot count on a late better, and if an early better bets, and there is a raise, you are put in a tough spot. You may still have the best hand, and you have a strong draw, so you probably have to call, not fold. Although protecting our hand is good, it isn't guaranteed. Letting this flop get checked through would be criminal.

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

ummm, passive enough there. with that cast of characters I'm leading out into them with my hand. I think your hand is strong enough to overcall the river considering that both of the players are pretty bad