Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

I'm going to go against what others have said and say, I like it and I'd do the same. As someone pointed out before, raising is not good because a 63/x/x probably doesn't have the concept of initiative in his mind. If he likes his hand, he's going to play, regardless of what we may have.

"Not having equity vs his range of hands" does not dictate a fold. The combination of this as well as the fact that the limper may not have an idea of initiative, tell us that a raise may not be the best idea.

I think if either blind is aggressive or a good player, this is a pretty clear fold. I only like playing these semi-trashy hands vs loose-passives.

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

I think this is the very fringe of what I would limp with here. And only if I feel like I'm playing well enough to not be stupid with it post flop. A lot of nights, this isn't the case.

- Jim

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: Just looked in PT. No big surprise, since I only play Q9o in the BB for free, but my stats say QTo is a +.02bb/100 winner, and Q9o is a (.03)bb/100 loser -- over 37k hands, with about 350 occurrences each.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you filter out blind status? If you're trying to disprove the possibility of Q9o being a slightly profitable hand, hands where you were in the blinds should be discounted. Since you said you don't play it anywhere else, then it's going to be 0 BB/100, which doesn't say much.

From what I can tell, I think I play these kinds of "trashy" hands (out of the blinds) more than most 2+2ers do. Hands like A9o-J9o, etc. I'm showing a slight profit, but some of them I only blind steal with, so the data may be skewed. They also aren't standard limps for me by any means. I usually only play them in situations where LPs have limped and I'm on the button (maybe the cutoff) with passive blinds left to act.

At the online mid-stakes games, this is a very rare situation. As a result, my sample size is small, so I don't have any definite conclusions at the moment. But if in the future, I find that I'm losing with them, I'll drop them from my play and say to myself, "they were right". Otherwise, I'll continue.

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

Not to mention there's a very significant value difference between playing Q9o in first position and on the button.

- Jim

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

I do not care for the limp here--Raise it here or fold---99% of the time I fold in this spot--BUT I AM TIGHT ---
and if you raise it here--when the flop hits, if the callers show they are weak you MUST bet the flop-----

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

Am I the only person who wonders how often these guys get to showdown before I decide my action?

EDIT: Also, I would never fold QTo/T9o here, and can't imagine the difference is particularly meaningful.

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only person who wonders how often these guys get to showdown before I decide my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your new name is even worse than The Daver. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

PLEEEEEEEEEEASE COME BACK, SFER. PLEASE COME BACK. AND BRING BACK THE PRETTY BROKE ASIAN MAN FROM YOUR AVATAR.

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

By coincidence I was talking to a friend about my standards for isolating and I gave him Q9o as the low bound on offsuit queens I would raise with. I would raise here. I think limping is second best. Folding is missing a chance to win some easy money. The raise isn't about initiative (though sometimes it helps) but just about getting the damn blinds out.

-DeathDonkey

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
shant was sweating me tonight and he didn't like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
For the record I didn't say I didn't like it. I just said, "interesting."

Re: 10/20 Q9o preflop
 

Nice hand. This post should be in SS.