Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
 

What on earth did you expect to have happen when you raise black 4's in EP in a 2-4 game? Oh yeah, I wouldn't fold the river. I wouldn't have bet the river, either.

Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
 

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Looks good to me. Its kinda close but since her three betting range is fairly big, and there are ton of draws that you could have missed I think you need to bet. If you feel like you cant fold to a raise, and she is going to be poping you with stuff like 99 for value then it probably becomes a tougher decision. Given the board and the action I really dont think you can fold the river, especailly if you feel like you have a read.

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Do we really think her 3 betting range is that big here? We raised utg+1.
I think the preflop play stinks by the way. Just muck the 4s.

Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
 

I only said her three bet range is fairly large because the few times I've played with her she opened and three bet a lot more than other good players. I guess basically Im saying I think AQ is in her range and its another hand that Bike can beat. BTW I agree its best to just fold the fours.

Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
 

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Yes, I can confirm that she was one of the few people who inspired the term Floater ("trademark MS aka Nomar)

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I think that makes it a call, unless a weak-seeming raise from a floater is usually a hand.

~D

Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
 

i dont get it....why are you in this hand? 8 handed i fold 44 in EP all the time...

Barron

Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
 

i believe this is chip spewage. i check and encourage ace high to bluff at it

Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
 

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I wouldn't fold the river. I wouldn't have bet the river, either.

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Ive played with her as well and I cant see folding to her here but I would never bet in this spot against her either. I think 3betting may be superior to calling after she raises but its v. close.

-Brad

Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
 

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I've never felt betting this rivers was worth it. I get raised too much because my bet looks like I've got nothing, but I constantly worry I'm getting raised by nothing so I'm tempted to call. Someone here suggests a 3 bet, but I think that is crazy. They aren't going to fold. Nobody ever folds.

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You Sucker and Brad have me convinced. A check call might be a little better than bet call here. I think it depends on how often she is gonna follow through on the turn without a pair, whether or not we have to pay off a raise, how often she is gonna value raise us with thin hands, and how often she bets the river with air when we check. Taking everything into consideration I think you guys are right.

Also no way I'm gonna put 800 in on the river. I dont think she has 55-1010 enough and even when she does she might not lay down.

Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
 

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i dont get it....why are you in this hand? 8 handed i fold 44 in EP all the time...

Barron

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I agree. I dont get why your in this hand. I'm guessing you randomly pick times to do weird things?? & alot of those times they end up being hands you post??

Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
 

I don't like any part of it. The times I'll raise a small pair like this UTG, is when I feel I'm getting too much respect, the game is particularily (weak) tight, or I've been playing really tight for some reason (preferrably some combination of all three). But you said you've played a decent amount of pots, so I don't get your pre-flop play.

I'm also not thrilled with your post-flop line. You're check/calling, why? To induce bets from a worse hand? I think you should either play your 4's for the best hand, or give up contesting this pot on the turn when the 3rd heart hits. Had a rag fell, I might like c/r'ng the turn, but you're too likely to be called by a single heart now and this makes for a harder read. You're in bad shape. 4th pair, both black, and out of position. For cryin' out loud, LAY ONE DOWN, man....

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the river. You bet, why? For value? To get a better hand to fold? The 2nd jack makes her MORE likely to call, not less. After being raised on the river, I don't think it matters much what you do. Fold, call, or re-raise. This hand is like a flower in a hurricane. Who knows where you're at? You've been guessing all the way up until this point, so just make one more guess and hope you're next hand is either legit or complete trash so that it will be easier to play.