Re: I improve - I check
 

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How is that a good reason to check though? He might as well bet for value and attempt to stop someone from out drawing him to something like two pair...

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The board is already paired and there are no overcards. People have 2 outs at most.

Re: I improve - I check
 

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30/60 game online - 10 handed.

Unknown player limps in MP1, bad loose aggressive player who thinks he is good limps in MP3, I raise in the hijack with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], clinically insane aggressive big blind raises (he could have anything), the two limpers called, and I cap. 4 to the flop for 16sb

Flop: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, MP1 Bets, MP3 calls, I call, BB folds.

Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to me - I check.

River: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

MP1 bets, MP3 raises, I call or fold?

I think all streets are debatable.

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I like mp3s play on the turn if he has 44. He correctly put you on overcards with an ace when you called the flop.

Re: I improve - I check
 

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I'm very interested in why you checked this turn.

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Because if he's ahead he has just about zero danger of losing the hand.

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What of the missed value here, though?

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The problem is Max must pay off the LAG once he spikes an Ace, and the LAG called a flop bet after the preflop action made it very likely that Max has a hand like AA/KK/QQ and is raising the flop behind him.

Re: I improve - I check
 

They could have 3 outs if they have an ace with lower kicker. Also I could end up splitting the pot with another ace if a K or Q quuen comes on the river.

However, I think the likelihood of someone else having an ace is low.

This particular board is one of the few that I would consider checking on. If there were no pair on board or and straight and flush draws present then giving a free card would be a mistake. It still might be a mistake here, but I don't know. That's why I posted.

Re: I improve - I check
 

I don't understand why you would fold the river. My first thought would be to raise. But on second thought it might be better to go for the overcall.

And I would have bet the turn, for value. The LAG might call and MP1 might call when he holds an 8.

Re: I improve - I check
 

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I'm very interested in why you checked this turn.

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Because if he's ahead he has just about zero danger of losing the hand.

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What of the missed value here, though?

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The problem is Max must pay off the LAG once he spikes an Ace, and the LAG called a flop bet after the preflop action made it very likely that Max has a hand like AA/KK/QQ and is raising the flop behind him.

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I don't think you can deduce this just becaues he's a LAG. That, and we're ahead of two of 2/3rds of that range.

Re: I improve - I check
 

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I'm very interested in why you checked this turn.

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Because if he's ahead he has just about zero danger of losing the hand.

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What of the missed value here, though?

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The problem is Max must pay off the LAG once he spikes an Ace, and the LAG called a flop bet after the preflop action made it very likely that Max has a hand like AA/KK/QQ and is raising the flop behind him.

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I don't think you can deduce this just becaues he's a LAG. That, and we're ahead of two of 2/3rds of that range.

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What are you talking about?

Re: I improve - I check
 

I don't think you understood his comment. Those are the hands I might have.

The fact that the LAG didn't raise the flop most likely means that he is either drawing dead or already has me crushed. I doubt he has an 8 or a pocket pair.

The other guy most likely has 2 outs.

I do not think I get much action unless I am already beat and it might be worth taking the small chance of losing this pot to induce a bluff or save bets when I am behind. I am not sure.

Re: I improve - I check
 

Your preflop play and postflop play are not consistent. You ram and jammed with AJs preflop (which I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) and made a big pot and then played the turn like there was 2 BB sitting out there instead of 10 BB. If the pot had like 2 BB in it then okay, maybe getting tricky or whatever trying to avoid a check raise or get a curiosity call or something out of one of them on the river might make checking the turn be a good play. But the pot is really big in this hand. So, bet the turn. No need to give free cards, there could be as many as 4 or 5 outs to beat you or some Q or K hitting to make a random A chop with you or whatever and you let them take a free shot at you by checking. If you get check raised then you are going to call down anyway so who cares about that. Bet. Save the fancy trappy dodge the raise stuff for when there are scraps out there, not Thanksgiving.

Re: I improve - I check
 

I agree that the size of the pot is the factor that most strongly conflicts with checking. The dead money is more important than any additional bets I can collect on the river.