Re: Am I drawing dead?
 

All in on the flop IMO. After the UTG re-raise of course. You're probably behind a set, so its really a matter of you wanting to get in a race with the added possibilty of pushing somebody off a set (which isnt likely to happen)

As played: River, i check fold, as much as it might hurt.

Re: Am I drawing dead?
 

He has more than enough immediate odds to call on the turn even if his implied odds are nonexistant. Assuming he's drawing live, which is consistent with his read on UTG's betting habits.

And I still don't understand the fascination with shoving it all in on the flop with no folding equity. You guys should just go play blackjack or something.

Re: Am I drawing dead?
 

Couple of thoughts here, and I'll let this run a bit longer before I post results.

1) My read isn't good enough to know whether he would only raise a $50 river bet all-in with a boat. I consider him to be a somewhat reasonable player, so presumably he would have to have a boat, but I can't be sure. The flop c/r and turn bet just tell me that he isn't screwing around with like bottom pair; he has something. But that something does not have to be a boat.

Edit: Also, yeah, I think he's calling a river value bet with hands I beat. I was thinking about this a lot last night, and the truth is that if he doesn't have a boat he doesn't really beat anything that I bet $50 with on the river, but at the same time he's getting better than 3-1 and will probably make a crying call.

2) I'm with soah on the flop play. I don't understand why everyone wants to fastplay this flop. My two opponents are a) an idiot that will pay me off if I hit and probably let me draw cheaply and b) a guy with a lot of chips that I might be able to stack if I hit. I'm confident enough in my postflop play that I don't need to just shove it in.

Re: Am I drawing dead?
 

You can actually value raise the flop if you expect the 3rd guy to stick around. Shoving the flop is on the lesser side of a mistake, and not a mistake if there is any FE at all.

Re: Am I drawing dead?
 

You can also value raise a later street when your equity is 80-100% instead of 50%.

Re: Am I drawing dead?
 

Why not both? Certainly hides your hand a bit more than waking up when the flush/straight hits, no?

Re: Am I drawing dead?
 

At which point on the flop are you advocating putting more money in? The only reason you're getting an overlay is because you have two opponents in the pot with you. Once one is all-in, you're getting 2:1 on a 2:1 draw for the remainder of your money. And once you make the pot that big, you're going to have to call off the rest of your stack on the turn. As the cliche goes, why settle for the best of it when you can have way the best of it instead?

- edit - against one opponent you're getting even money on a coin flip. Getting 2:1 is not the correct way to write it. I've been awake too long to figure out what I'm talking about.

Re: Am I drawing dead?
 

My apologies, didn't see that CO was so short.

Re: Am I drawing dead?
 

[ QUOTE ]

And I still don't understand the fascination with shoving it all in on the flop with no folding equity. You guys should just go play blackjack or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

But overbetting the flop is so much fun!

I think pushing the flop here, while tempting on the face of it, is a bad idea. If you have any fold equity it's versus hands that we would prefer call. We are ahead of everything but a set. Lets play poker here.

Re: Am I drawing dead?
 

Let's move this discussion to the river.

River: ($135.10) (3 players) 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets $50 (with $50 more behind)...

Thoughts?

(By the way, if he pushes I probably vomit, call, post on 2+2 and go to bed)