Re: Evidence that God exists
 

I used to find it amazing that somebody can base his belief on something someone told him, and then have the audacity to call into question the validity of searching for evidence; now I'm used to it.

Re: Evidence that God exists
 

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Most of Europe before Columbus and all those folk.


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Your source?

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I don't think follows necessarily


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I don't claim it's necessary according to human reason.

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And it's especially not true that the existence of matter proves there is a Christian God


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It's strong evidence. Whether it amounts to proof that an individual will accept depends on the individual's standard of proof.

Re: Evidence that God exists
 

Using your same guidelines, can you please prove that you were born and not found under a rock?

Thanks,

Josh

Re: Evidence that God exists
 

I am by choice an atheist, because I enjoy the logical thinking behind trusting empirical evidence and I admire the advances scientific search for answers have made possible.

But our advances and answers are all models, and they can rarely be taken as a direct explanation of phenomena we observe. A simple example will for instance be the laws of newton...whereas physics now operate with many instances were these laws do not apply, they are still usable as a mathematical model for calculating and predecting the outcome of mechanics and force exerted on objects.

For instance, we do not KNOW what gravity is, but we have mathematical models by the dozens which allows us to calculate and predict its effects...so we know what it DOES, and hence we acknowledge that it exists.

Empirical science is very often like that, it predicts, measures, explains...but isn't essentalist..it rarely is an exact answer as to _what_ is going on. In that respect many of the more classical sciences are also about belief...you predict what it does, accept its existence...but rarely explain what it _is_.

Religion takes the other approach, it gives us the what and the why...but rarely if ever gives us the tools needed to measure, predict and calculate the effects of what happens around us.

I don't think setting your standpoint in any of those in any way implies that you can't believe in both. Evidence that god exists would be neat, bottom-of-the-line empirical solutions to what things ARE...as merely opposed to what they do...would also be neat.

Lack of those does not imply either are wrong. So in the end it all comes down to belief anyway.

Re: Evidence that God exists
 

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How about just anything observable

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This just turns into the same argument. We both know that the existence of God can neither be proved nor disproved.

As far as observable, that depends on the observer doesn't it?

If we wanted to talk about logical conclusions, then we could debate.

Re: Evidence that God exists
 

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Most of Europe before Columbus and all those folk.


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Your source?



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It was just an example. Perhaps nobody believed the world was flat and they lied to me all through school. All I was saying was that lots of people believing something is true doesn't mean that it is true. Lots of people believe in Islam, but you don't believe that Islam is a true religion from God do you?


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It's strong evidence. Whether it amounts to proof that an individual will accept depends on the individual's standard of proof.

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Could you explain this? Why does the existence of matter provide evidence of a Christian God as opposed to some other deity?

Re: Evidence that God exists
 

I agree completely. I never said that God doesn't exist. I just think that it is a matter of faith. There isn't any direct evidence of God and I've read a few comments from posters who believe that there is such evidence. I am just curious as to what this evidence is.

Re: Evidence that God exists
 

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It was just an example. Perhaps nobody believed the world was flat and they lied to me all through school.

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There is some (mixed) evidence that ancient civilizations believed the earth was flat, but it was generally acknowledged by around the 1st century that the earth was spherical. After Ptolemy developed his astronomy in the 2nd century no one believed the earth was flat. Columbus, after all, was trying to sail to India. To get there by going west from Europe, he would have had to sail around the globe--not over the edge.

Re: Evidence that God exists
 

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Perhaps nobody believed the world was flat and they lied to me all through school.


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I don't know how many people told you everyone pre-Columbus believed the world was flat but it's very easy to determine what the real situation was. Many of the ancient Greeks believed the earth is round and even calculated the circumference fairly accurately as well as the distance to the Moon.

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Why does the existence of matter provide evidence of a Christian God as opposed to some other deity?


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In your OP you didn't specify the God of the Bible. I believe nature testifies to the existence of a Creator, the Bible provides more specific information.

Re: Evidence that God exists
 

I never said that everyone believed the world was flat. Just that lots of people at one time did. It really doesn't matter. Maybe nobody thought the world was flat. The point is that just because many people believe X, it doesn't mean that X is correct or true.