Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

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think you walked right into a raise on fifth.

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Why?

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What do you think he called $8 with on 3rd?

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

He may have walked into a raise on 5th, but I'd still prefer betting here because it gives you more information. You know now that tens are not going to be good so you wont have to pay off a bet on the end. It becomes quite clear that he has a big pair in the hole here, probably aces.

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

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He may have walked into a raise on 5th, but I'd still prefer betting here because it gives you more information. You know now that tens are not going to be good so you wont have to pay off a bet on the end. It becomes quite clear that he has a big pair in the hole here, probably aces.

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I agree. You're totally right. I need to learn to make this fold on the river.

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

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What do you think he called $8 with on 3rd?

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Stream did you villain was a bit loose. And I’m sure you’ve seen people call here with all sorts of hands - 2A2, 3-flushes, mid pairs, A32, right down to AK2o. Hell, you’ve called me with crap like that yourself, just to lay a beat on me. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

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I’m not sure I like 3rd though. What did you think seat 2 completed with? You probably knew something I don’t know though, given that he folded.

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I admit the third street play is really on the edge, and I came real close to folding. Regarding seat 2, my only read was that I have seen him make poor decisions in the past and complete in marginal circumstances. Here he was completing into a live ace and queen. I am not totally sure why, but I thought there was a reasonable chance he was on an ill-advised early steal. So I decided to over-represent my hand in this case, and use his bad decision to put pressure on the ace and queen. Note that the queen had to act first. If he had queens, he has to seriously consider folding given what the two maniacs in front of him just did, and that a live ace has yet to act. So I thought that I might only be in real trouble if the ace had another one to go with his door.

If either the ace or queen raised, then I was going to fold, unless it ended up heads up. On the other hand, if either of them had a small pair with an overcard kicker, I figured the raise would drive them out, and I would be content to play the hand afterwards. I think this hand helped my table image a bit - I got nice action after this when I started with hands like aces or kings.

I agree with the general sentiment on third though - I fold here most of the time.

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

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given what the two maniacs in front of him just did

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Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

egads, you play scary good. I like 3rd as a change up, as long as you are ready to jump right off if you get three-bet (or take one off heads up, but out on fifth unimproved). As long as you don't get tied on when plays like this don't work, they are fine when worked in sparingly IMHO. The raise on fifth just screams out overpair in the pocket, the most likely is JJ based on the Q, A and Ks you've seen. So kings up is likely good here. When it's not, you won't get raised unless he makes trips or the read is wrong. But I see so many players do this wait to fifth thing. If I was the bring in here I make it three to go right there on third with my big pocket pair, and keep leading if checked to as long as your board isn't scary, taking a free one on the river if I don't improve and am still last to act.

RESULT - mrbaa nails it
 

Villain rivered a four and ended up with jacks up. He played the jacks exactly as called by mrbaa.