Re: I have no idea if this was a river bluff raise or not
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think that donk on the turn means he has some piece of the board almost 100% of the time. Any piece of the board has you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]
How big of a part of his range is a J, and how often does he fold the J to a raise? We can pretty heavily discount a 5 from his range, right?

Re: I have no idea if this was a river bluff raise or not
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think that donk on the turn means he has some piece of the board almost 100% of the time. Any piece of the board has you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]
How big of a part of his range is a J, and how often does he fold the J to a raise? We can pretty heavily discount a 5 from his range, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would we discount a 5? He's in the BB, which means he could have damn near anything. His turn donk bet may simply represent straight forward play where he doesn't want to risk you checking behind on the turn.

Re: I have no idea if this was a river bluff raise or not
 

hey RDH,

I don't like the river raise. The pot isn't that big, and I don't see villain giving you credit for the K the way you played your hand...you'll get called by a J or PP a surprising amount of the time.

I probably fold to the turn donkbet. It's a weird play, but not one that is used as a bluff often enough for me to sweat it.

Surf

Re: I have no idea if this was a river bluff raise or not
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let me repeat my earlier question: since we all agree that turn-donk bet means villain has something, could that bet be a good bluff too?

In other words, if you're in villain's spot without much of a hand - and you knew that hero was smart and attentive - might you try the donk as a bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't that imply that you have to have been playing LP for it to work?
If someone 24/12/2 or something does this, and you are hero here do you fold?

Re: I have no idea if this was a river bluff raise or not
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let me repeat my earlier question: since we all agree that turn-donk bet means villain has something, could that bet be a good bluff too?

In other words, if you're in villain's spot without much of a hand - and you knew that hero was smart and attentive - might you try the donk as a bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't that imply that you have to have been playing LP for it to work?
If someone 24/12/2 or something does this, and you are hero here do you fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, I honestly don't understand what you're saying. My point before was that, since everyone here seems to agree that hero should fold the turn because the turn-donk means villain has a real hand, perhaps it also means that the turn-donk is an effective bluff.

I'm always trying to figure out good ways to use donk bets, so I thought the example posed might present such a case.

Re: I have no idea if this was a river bluff raise or not
 

He's saying that a donk means something when it comes from a LP. If I see "Wynton" donk me, I'm going to interpret it differently than when this villian does it. That's what he meant, anyways.

In any case, I'm pretty convinced that the turn is a fold, although I really don't think the villian has a 5 here very often. From what I've seen of 5/10 over the past month, most opponents wouldn't be able to resist the c/r here with trips, and if I get bet/3bet I make a note immediately. Still, a 5 is possible, a K more likely, and a J most likely I think. I play bad.

Re: I have no idea if this was a river bluff raise or not
 

Oh, now I see. Yeah, I guess a donk-bet bluff might not work too well unless you had a certain lp image in the first place.

Re: I have no idea if this was a river bluff raise or not
 

[ QUOTE ]
In other words, if you're in villain's spot without much of a hand - and you knew that hero was smart and attentive - might you try the donk as a bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

not with that board aginst a pfr.