Re: Pocket jacks against an overcard c/r on flop?
 

yes

Re: Pocket jacks against an overcard c/r on flop?
 

What about just calling preflop?
Oddly enough when you raise preflop this, you are realing hoping that both blinds call you and then are playing simply for set value.
If you don't raise, it is still a desirable pot, but an overcard with a backdoor draw, or a hand like middle pair aren't getting the same odds to call you on the flop. - Which a lot of the limpers might have.

Re: Pocket jacks against an overcard c/r on flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What about just calling preflop?
Oddly enough when you raise preflop this, you are realing hoping that both blinds call you and then are playing simply for set value.
If you don't raise, it is still a desirable pot, but an overcard with a backdoor draw, or a hand like middle pair aren't getting the same odds to call you on the flop. - Which a lot of the limpers might have.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your understanding of the pre-flop considerations here is very wrong.

We raise pre-flop because we have a hand that will win MUCH more than it's fair share of pots against a field this size. We raise because, not only does our hand have showdown value and can win unimproved, but because it can make a set and potentially win a monster pot. We raise because we have the fourth best hand in hold'em.

You are also misapplying the concept of pot distortion. Sure, opponents with weak hands may have odds to call later on because we've bloated the pot. But, they'd usually call anyway because they're small stakes players and suck. The fact that some flop/turn calls might be marginally correct doesn't really matter. Sure, technically "they win" in the fundamental theorem sense because they are playing correctly later on, but we've already made so many Sklansky buck by pushing our pre-flop equity edge that we don't really care.

Hero should raise here pre-flop and it is not even remotely close. It's not even really in the conversation. At all.

Re: Pocket jacks against an overcard c/r on flop?
 

don't make another post until you understand how amazingly standard and unworthy of your thought the decision to raise JJ is.

Re: Pocket jacks against an overcard c/r on flop?
 

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don't make another post until you understand how amazingly standard and unworthy of your thought the decision to raise JJ is.

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I thought I had read this in HEPFAP - I will try to find it.
It says to not raise on the button with JJ against exactly 3 or 4 players.
Page 25. With a pair of jacks it is best to call in a loose game if there is going to be more than one or two opponents. Either you want 1 or 2 or as many as possible.

Re: Pocket jacks against an overcard c/r on flop?
 

I think if you were going to call down anyway it's worth taking a shot at getting him to lay down a queen with a turn raise. Nobody folds here though, I guess. Yeah, you should probably call down instead and get the value out of 88-TT. But if you have seen this guy make a laydown in the past, this is a pretty big pot and he doesn't have to fold very often to make this right, plus, you were going to call down anyway.

Re: Pocket jacks against an overcard c/r on flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
don't make another post until you understand how amazingly standard and unworthy of your thought the decision to raise JJ is.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought I had read this in HEPFAP - I will try to find it.
It says to not raise on the button with JJ against exactly 3 or 4 players.
Page 25. With a pair of jacks it is best to call in a loose game if there is going to be more than one or two opponents. Either you want 1 or 2 or as many as possible.

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This assumes your opponents don't play garbage. Your opponents play garbage.

And this is one point where I disagree with a book. I raise JJ on the button in every game... and twice on Sunday.