Re: lost with TPTK
 

You played the turn like I would have. This ace on the river still puts you ahead of any flush draw (cept the KT of spades), but behind to AJ, AQ, JJ, QQ, or 99. Since he just called your bet, he could easily have a weaker ace and think the board is good enough to split a pot here, or have a flush draw that he missed. I'd think that villian would raise any set on the turn cuz of the flush possibility and the board getting too dangerous for straights. I think he would raise with AQ also. AJ he might not raise there, and just called, and KT would be most likely to just call and let you bet again into him on the river since he feels safest here.

I hate this board and the actions of the other guy, I guess I'd check call any reasonable bet he threw at me, and be prepared to muck to his hand that has me beat. If he put me all in, I'd have to call here, but I wouldn't like it.

I really hate this board.

Re: lost with TPTK
 

Well, I'd have to go to felt now, given the action.

He have played it pretty passively so I keep leading 1/2 pot and pray to god he calls with a weaker A.

I'd go for the c/r but unless he was drawing and missed (highly doubtful) no hand you are beating puts in chips.

If you are raised, bleah, can't fold, go broke.

Bleah.

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: lost with TPTK
 

This is how I approach this situation:

Firstly I'm not going to check. If I check my opponent will bet probably 100% of the time and I then face a probable river bet assuming I don't improve my hand. I'm not even sure if a King is an out. The only advantage to checking is if your opponent checks back, but he might try an get tricky on the river. I see this line of play as a potential way to lose the most chips.

Secondly, based on the flop play there is nothing to suggest
that at least on the flop that you are behind. I would bet the turn. I'd make around a 3/4 pot sized bet and take it from there. If I'm raised I would probably fold and live to fight another day. I'd assume in a $30 tournament if I'm raised I'm beat. The board is as scarey looking to your opponent as it is to you. If you're outplayed you still have enough chips to continue.

Bruce

Re: lost with TPTK
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I'd have to go to felt now, given the action.


[/ QUOTE ]

why? we haven't passed any hands that we were behind. AQ/AJ/JJ/88/A8 could still reasonably be slowplaying.

i'd like to check-fold, because i think it's pretty unlikely we're ahead, but the problem is that AT/A9/AK might overplay when they see the A hit and bet/push for value. i think a check is best, because i don't see any worse hands calling a bet. i think now that folding to a push would be the best play, but i'm sure that in the moment i would call because i can't make a big fold to save my life.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd go for the c/r but unless he was drawing and missed (highly doubtful) no hand you are beating puts in chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd hate a c/r. nothing calls that except for hands that beat us. check/call is wayyyyy better, imo.

Re: lost with TPTK
 

[ QUOTE ]
but the problem is that AT/A9/AK might overplay when they see the A hit and bet/push for value

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That's why I go broke here.

Since i have no plans on folding to a re-raise I lead as the hands I beat check behind my river check (I can't rely on them to push)

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: lost with TPTK
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but the problem is that AT/A9/AK might overplay when they see the A hit and bet/push for value

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I go broke here.

Since i have no plans on folding to a re-raise I lead as the hands I beat check behind my river check (I can't rely on them to push)

Regards,
Woodguy

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I'm not 100% on that woodguy, I think a check there might get a weaker hand to put in alot of chips that they might not have. They also might just check it, but if you bet it, some of the hands that might go for a big raise on the river to your check might not play this one.

Its obvious that we are willing to lose all of our chips on this board, so a check might get villian with a weaker ace or some trash like jqo or TJ of spades to make a final push for a nice pot, where they would have surely folded to your river bet there. Any hand that has us beat is going to bet for sure, and is going to raise for sure, any hand we are ahead of except perhaps a weaker ace are going to fold to a bet, so a check here might be good.

I would love to hear your opinion on this though, this is one of those boards that I absolutely despise, and its a hand that would haunt me for a while if I made the wrong decisions on it.

Re: lost with TPTK
 

you said regarding the turn (and you didn't include T9):

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably fold and still have 2000 chips to play with if he raised me, because there can't be too many hands that I'd be ahead of here that would raise me there after calling a decent bet on the flop and me throwing another good bet on the turn. I am behind to AQ, AJ, KT, 88, JJ, or QQ here, and I can't think of a hand that would raise me here that doesn't have my TPTK beat. So I'd give it up and live to fight another battle.


[/ QUOTE ]

regarding the river:

[ QUOTE ]
Its obvious that we are willing to lose all of our chips on this board

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why did you suddenly get more confident? because he only called the turn? we haven't passed any of these hands, and the additional A hitting makes AT/A9/AK less likely than before.

i'm still not convinced that check/folding this river is not right, or maybe block/folding.

Re: lost with TPTK
 

I said that on the assumption that you put out there if he raised me there, which would put him on that tight of a range. With a call, I think his range is bigger than that, and includes flush draws along with some other hands like TJ of spades, JQo, Ax thats not AQ or AJ. I also said that without him raising me, I think the chances that he has a set go down, because a set would have likely raised there with the board getting so dangerous, and AQ would have raised there I think also. I think that now, we are ahead of more hands here than we are behind based on my reads, he might have slow played on the dangerous board and gets me, but I'd like to think that I am ahead of his range right now.

Re: lost with TPTK
 

That was Bruce's line on the turn.

I got more confident on the river since he didn't raise the turn, which I would *probably* expect a better hand than mine to do since it added another broadway to the board, unless he had exactly AQ.

So it looks to me he's trying to get to showdown cheap, or has me so buired he not worried.

Given the size of the pot, and what I have behind, and the read, I lead here.

Since I lead, I donk-commited myself to calling any raise.

I'm probably wrong, but I've said that thoughout this thread. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: lost with TPTK
 

There are plenty of hands you are still ahead of on the turn. KQ spades or not, J10 spades, A10/A9, KJ. KK. I lead the turn for about 550 and probably (but not always) fold to a push.