Re: Hated this, what should I have done (Stars 16 Turbo)
 

No one considers just pushing this preflop and picking up the dead chips, hopefully get a donk to call with AJ or TT?

Re: Hated this, what should I have done (Stars 16 Turbo)
 

The pot is still way too small to push preflop.

Re: Hated this, what should I have done (Stars 16 Turbo)
 

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No one considers just pushing this preflop and picking up the dead chips, hopefully get a donk to call with AJ or TT?

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1470 for 285 (SB + BB + 240 [60*4])? no. that's scared poker.
if you get called you better definitely count on seeing A A, A K, and K K. i doubt someone is calling you with A J and although i've seen it with 10 10, i haven't seen it often enough, especially when it's so early.

Re: Hated this, what should I have done (Stars 16 Turbo)
 

You don't play at the same tables as me then. It's unbelievable what people call with when they think someone is trying to buy the pot. There is no AA/KK around this table unless UTG+1 decided to get cute.

Re: Hated this, what should I have done (Stars 16 Turbo)
 

Agreed that it is scared poker, but when I manage to lose chips on this flop I have all reason to be scared. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Hated this, what should I have done (Stars 16 Turbo)
 

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You don't play at the same tables as me then. It's unbelievable what people call with when they think someone is trying to buy the pot. There is no AA/KK around this table unless UTG+1 decided to get cute.

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keyword [cute]. i don't play the $16s, i play the $5.50s and $11s. i'm prefectly aware of what these players will call with. there's not really too much of a difference in play.

Re: Hated this, what should I have done (Stars 16 Turbo)
 

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Agreed that it is scared poker, but when I manage to lose chips on this flop I have all reason to be scared. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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the point is, [you didn't have too]. as soon as your huge reraise got called [by more than one villain], an Ace or a King should've been first and foremost in your mind. this was a perfect example of a flop to check/fold and avoid investing anymore chips.

Re: Hated this, what should I have done (Stars 16 Turbo)
 

What I meant was that 95% of the times there is no AA/KK here with this betting. I'm willing to bust the 5 times out of 100 there is. The 5 times UTG+1 gets cute.

I do not think pushing is bad because I might be called by AA/KK. Pushing is probably bad because I make more money reraising smaller or calling. I don't hate pushing though, considering that I will get called by dominated hands more times that one would expect.

Re: Hated this, what should I have done (Stars 16 Turbo)
 

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What I meant was that 95% of the times there is no AA/KK here with this betting. I'm willing to bust the 5 times out of 100 there is. The 5 times UTG+1 gets cute.

I do not think pushing is bad because I might be called by AA/KK. Pushing is probably bad because I make more money reraising smaller or calling. I don't hate pushing though, considering that I will get called by dominated hands more times that one would expect.

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i also think you will make more over the long run reraising less and playing more superior postflop. likewise i feel you will lose less in the long run both because you haven't committed so many chips and then having to fold on the flop or lose everything when you get called either by A A/K K or some crackpot with way worse.

Re: Hated this, what should I have done (Stars 16 Turbo)
 

No matter how much I raise though, with two callers the size of the pot will be so big that I wish you good luck outplaying anyone postflop with superior postflop play. It will be more or less a question of putting it all in there or check/fold.

Lose less is totally irrelevant. I wanna make the play that on average wins me the most. Folding here would be the way to lose the least on this hand in the long run. Flawed thinking.