Re: i suck. underpairs suck too.
 

Give up. Check and fold to a river bet.

Re: i suck. underpairs suck too.
 

Clearly, dumbass is on a downswing and feeling a tiltish sort of sorry for himself. I know how this goes as I am going though the same irrational crap.

Anyway, in an attempt to look like a dumbass myself I didn't look at the result post nor the replies and will respond blind.

I would do the same for the preflop raise along with the continuation bet out on the flop. The question is what to do on the turn. I think that the best option would be to bet out on the scary A pairing the board since your play up to now indicates a strong hand that may have an A. Obviously, being 3-bet you can easily throw this hand away.

If you get called, you can take a free showdown if your opponent is dumb enough to call down with less than what you have. Don't be surprised to be beaten by a hand with a Q/J as this opponent may not have folded on the river anyway. The question that I'd really ask myself is whether or not this opponent would fold to a river bet not having an A. Mostly likely the answer is "not very often."

Re: i suck. underpairs suck too.
 

The A on the turn isn't scary and actually makes your opponent more likely to call down with any pair.

Re: i suck. underpairs suck too.
 

[ QUOTE ]
The question that I'd really ask myself is whether or not this opponent would fold to a river bet not having an A. Mostly likely the answer is "not very often."

[/ QUOTE ]
If they call that turn and fold the river you had them beat anyway.

Re: i suck. underpairs suck too.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Clearly, dumbass is on a downswing and feeling a tiltish sort of sorry for himself. I know how this goes as I am going though the same irrational crap.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not irrational considering that dumbass likes to eat and it's getting a little too cold to sleep rough, but I get your point. I don't make a practice of whining about results. This is all about trying to turn things around + inserting lots of self deprecating stuff to help me see the humour in losing a considerable (for me) amount of money + completely losing my game.

Anyway... thanks for you comments.

Re: i suck. underpairs suck too.
 

That's true, it may or may not be scary.

I think that the context defines whether or not the A pairing the turn is scary. Perhaps if your opponents have seen whether or not you've been raising with high cards plays into this. If your opponent has seen you preflop raising with A-high hands, he may muck a bottom or middle pair HU even.

Either way, I have a hard time not seeing a reason to fire on the turn (given the action up to this point) with position and taking a free showdown regardless of the results. If he checks the turn, he'll have to muck the showdown. Why not fire the turn and give your opponent even a small possibility to muck the turn to take the pot down? And since we are in position we can either muck the river if bet into or take a free showdown to see if we have the best hand.

I think this is the best line. Either way, our opponents will see that we don't always raise or bet into the pot with an A.

Re: i suck. underpairs suck too.
 

There is no flush draw on the turn so the only hand you hope to take a free showdown against is a lone K that still has a lot of outs against you, and possibly to get 99 or 88 to fold.

Like I said before, regardless of your raising history, that A on the turn kills your fold equity and increases the chance you get called down by a pair on the board. I think you're wasting a bet if you bet this turn.

Re: i suck. underpairs suck too.
 

[ QUOTE ]
If they call that turn and fold the river you had them beat anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, that's my point. I've had a few drinks before going to bed so sorry if I'm not complete. I suppose the real question is whether or not a better hand than 77 would muck the river.

Probably not. Betting the river even with position is spewing. But I like the line detruncate did. Perhaps this is because it's exactly how I'd play it. But then again I'm a dumbass, too. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Unite!!

Re: i suck. underpairs suck too.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose the real question is whether or not a better hand than 77 would muck the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the question I was answering. Barely any better hands are folding so if you bet and they fold, 77 was good.

Re: i suck. underpairs suck too.
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is the question I was answering. Barely any better hands are folding so if you bet and they fold, 77 was good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. Now that I look back on it, the only situation you'd get an opponent to fold is if this particular opponent is tight or not. A 30+ VPIP opponent probably wouldn't throw a pair on the board whereas a weak-tight or tight-aggressive player might.

Thanks for helping me clear this up. I should have been using these boards to debate my retardedness long ago. I think I tend to be laggish even if it doesn't merit such play. I wonder if I'm just going through a normal learning curve...

So basically what you're saying is taking the free card on the turn and mucking the river UI if bet into is the best line. I can see that with this opponent.