Re: thinkin WA/WB, but then it just kept gettin uglier
 

I have no clue what you're talking about. I was referring to the fact that just saying "raise the flop" is not at all helpful to the discussion.

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This is either a continuation bet

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How is it a continuation bet when hero 3-bet preflop?

Re: thinkin WA/WB, but then it just kept gettin uglier
 

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Either way, if we call down, he's getting what he wants.


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actually i think call down is the last thing he wants, if hes got an ace hes probably going for a bet/3-bet, if not he would probably want us to fold

Re: thinkin WA/WB, but then it just kept gettin uglier
 

In the post, the OP asked which is better, raising the flop or what he did, specifically. I gave him an answer. I suspected the OP already knew why he should be raising.

A lot of opponents don't cap preflop, ever. I see a lot of continuation betting, because most players hate checking here. I probably didn't get the lingo right, but you know what I mean. The villian felt obligated to make the bet, because checking sucks.

Re: thinkin WA/WB, but then it just kept gettin uglier
 

What do you do if he calls your flop raise and checks the turn?

Re: thinkin WA/WB, but then it just kept gettin uglier
 

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Raise the flop.

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Yuck. I think folding the flop is a lot better than raising.

Rob

Re: thinkin WA/WB, but then it just kept gettin uglier
 

I also would raise the flop. SOme opponents can 3bet you with air so if I think he's one of those I might not sometimes. But this is way too often a pair worse than ours. He sees the AAx and thinks, heh, that's scary for him if he doesn't have an A, i might have the best hand, he might fold, I'll bet. Raise the flop.

If he calls you then bet sometimes. If he calls and donks the turn I would fold. I would bet all the time against an opponent who's checkrasie I would believe. If he calls the turn check through the river. I think you mostly bet the turn folding to a c/r and soemtimes check the turn calling a river bet.

Re: thinkin WA/WB, but then it just kept gettin uglier
 

I would fold this turn. Your behind pretty much all of the time on the turn, and when your not he probably has a good club redraw.

Re: thinkin WA/WB, but then it just kept gettin uglier
 

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I also would raise the flop. SOme opponents can 3bet you with air so if I think he's one of those I might not sometimes. But this is way too often a pair worse than ours. He sees the AAx and thinks, heh, that's scary for him if he doesn't have an A, i might have the best hand, he might fold, I'll bet. Raise the flop.

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I dont think raising the flop is going to get him to back down. He probably anticipates a 3bettable ace preflop to wait for the turn.

I think if i call the turn, i call the river. The turn is much scarier than the river, in the sense that it completed an overcard that you may have been vulnerable to and a flush.

The king is fairly harmless (in light of the queen) when you consider what he potentially has. KQ already had you beat. KJ is unlikely given you have two jacks. Do you think he raises K/10 preflop and leads here? K/9? If not, then the king rarely changes anything.

I fold the turn though without a read to suggest he's extremely aggressive. If he is, i just call the whole way.

Re: thinkin WA/WB, but then it just kept gettin uglier
 

I like this post because it made me realize another reason to raise the flop - that small bet is the cheapest opportunity I have to get information from him. Looking at the way this hand played out, I have no clue what that guy had, and I feel forced to fold that river just like you did. After I raise the flop, I fold to any aggression, bet/fold the turn, and check through any river card.

Re: thinkin WA/WB, but then it just kept gettin uglier
 

calling the turn and folding the river is ugly here. What changes your hand between the turn and the river that makes you want to fold your hand? You really think he hit that k?? If you call the turn, call the river. Only thing you beat here is TT-99. A free/cheap showdown raise isn't such a bad idea on the flop, IMHO. You can bet/fold again on the turn with any non [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]