Re: Abraham and a morality poll
 

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"If we are to say that murder is ok in self defense, then we are stating that not only is the self defense murder moral, but so is the murder of the attacker. "

Killing someone in self-defense is not murder.

With limited exceptions, killing an enemy soldier in time of war is not murder either.

[/ QUOTE ] I was not using the lawfulness of killing when I created the pole. Please change the post however you see fit, so that the questions are regarding the moralness of killing a person.

Re: Abraham and a morality poll
 

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Please change the post however you see fit, so that the questions are regarding the moralness of killing a person.

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So I'm too assume that when you ask if we believe murder is ok to end suffering that the victim is complicit in the act? Because I'm ok with euthenasia at a patient's request, but not if it's up to the doctor to decide who's suffering too much to live.

Re: Abraham and a morality poll
 

It is clearly at the patients request either in person or written in the case of life support.

Re: Abraham and a morality poll
 

Interjection with biblical interpretation:

The story of Abraham and Isaac can be interpreted many different ways, but fundamentally it is a test. A shallow interpretation sees this as God testing Abraham's obedience, however, I think the author was trying to paint a different picture.

I believe that the command to Abraham to sacrifice his son is not God testing Abraham, but allowing Abraham the opportunity to test God. Keep in mind, at the time, this God was the new guy on the block and so far hadn't done much to describe his character to his followers. Demanding a blood sacrifice but then cancelling it went gone a long way in showing Abraham who this new Jehovah god really is and what he stands for. Furthermore, I can't think of a more elegant way for a new upstart deity to gather faith than this.

FYI, I've been a lifelong atheist and have always used this story in debates with Christian friends as an example of God's cruelty until I stumbled upon this interpretation, and I rather like it.

Re: Abraham and a morality poll
 

[ QUOTE ]
Interjection with biblical interpretation:

The story of Abraham and Isaac can be interpreted many different ways, but fundamentally it is a test. A shallow interpretation sees this as God testing Abraham's obedience, however, I think the author was trying to paint a different picture.

I believe that the command to Abraham to sacrifice his son is not God testing Abraham, but allowing Abraham the opportunity to test God. Keep in mind, at the time, this God was the new guy on the block and so far hadn't done much to describe his character to his followers. Demanding a blood sacrifice but then canceling it went gone a long way in showing Abraham who this new Jehovah god really is and what he stands for. Furthermore, I can't think of a more elegant way for a new upstart deity to gather faith than this.

FYI, I've been a lifelong atheist and have always used this story in debates with Christian friends as an example of God's cruelty until I stumbled upon this interpretation, and I rather like it.

[/ QUOTE ] Interesting side note, but No other picture is painted by the church except that of a test of faith.

However one story that I heard was that one day Ishmael was bragging to Isaac about having to be circumcised when he was thirteen. Isaac said, "That’s not so much, if God told father that he was to kill me for an offering, I'd gladly go."

God overhearing this decided both to test Isaac’s resolve and Abraham’s faith. It shows gods capricious nature. In order to really test Abraham and Isaac, God let Abraham kill Isaac, It was only after God resurrected Isaac did God stop Abraham from trying to kill him again. Why test just one persons faith, when you can ignore the laws of the life and death and test two?


How'd you vote and why?

Re: Abraham and a morality poll
 

What? So far the last question is 100% no. Has anyone religious voted yet? I thought that this was where the religious people have been saying yes.

Re: Abraham and a morality poll
 

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What? So far the last question is 100% no. Has anyone religious voted yet? I thought that this was where the religious people have been saying yes.

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah what is going on with that.

Re: Abraham and a morality poll
 

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However one story that I heard was that one day Ishmael was bragging to Isaac about having to be circumcised when he was thirteen. Isaac said, "That’s not so much, if God told father that he was to kill me for an offering, I'd gladly go."

God overhearing this decided both to test Isaac’s resolve and Abraham’s faith. It shows gods capricious nature. In order to really test Abraham and Isaac, God let Abraham kill Isaac, It was only after God resurrected Isaac did God stop Abraham from trying to kill him again. Why test just one persons faith, when you can ignore the laws of the life and death and test two?

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This is not in Genesis, where does this story come from?

Cheers,
SDM

Re: Abraham and a morality poll
 

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However one story that I heard was that one day Ishmael was bragging to Isaac about having to be circumcised when he was thirteen. Isaac said, "That’s not so much, if God told father that he was to kill me for an offering, I'd gladly go."

God overhearing this decided both to test Isaac’s resolve and Abraham’s faith. It shows gods capricious nature. In order to really test Abraham and Isaac, God let Abraham kill Isaac, It was only after God resurrected Isaac did God stop Abraham from trying to kill him again. Why test just one persons faith, when you can ignore the laws of the life and death and test two?

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This is not in Genesis, where does this story come from?

Cheers,
SDM

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SDM, I don't know where it comes from, and I wish I knew which version is more accurate. But it does make the story more interesting.

Re: Abraham and a morality poll
 

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However one story that I heard was that one day Ishmael was bragging to Isaac about having to be circumcised when he was thirteen. Isaac said, "That’s not so much, if God told father that he was to kill me for an offering, I'd gladly go."

God overhearing this decided both to test Isaac’s resolve and Abraham’s faith. It shows gods capricious nature. In order to really test Abraham and Isaac, God let Abraham kill Isaac, It was only after God resurrected Isaac did God stop Abraham from trying to kill him again. Why test just one persons faith, when you can ignore the laws of the life and death and test two?

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This is not in Genesis, where does this story come from?

Cheers,
SDM

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Ok after some googling I found this.
http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p244.html